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  1. #1
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    Default Messing with equipment

    In the morning we do checks on all appartus to check that basic equipment is there and in working order...as I suppose most fire departments do. However, we recently discovered that our bosses are purposely messing with equipment to make sure the checks are being performed. We are supposed to "catch" the items they mess with....like disconnecting high pressure lines from SCBA and disconnecting nozzles from high rise packs. We asked upper management about it and they said this was "acceptable" so the bosses could make sure we are doing our checks.

    Does any other department allow this? Does this seem "acceptable"?


  2. #2
    Forum Member Chauffeur6's Avatar
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    Thumbs down

    And just what happens if an early morning fire comes in BEFORE anyone has had time to even start checkout? What then? When some poor bastard grabs a pack that has the hose disconnected, or the hi-rise pack without the nozzle in it? When they're already 5 stories up before they realize? Who is going to answer to the board of inquiry or judge and jury if someone should get injured or worse because the equipment was tampered with?

    I'm sorry, but you do NOT play games with equipment like this. That equipment is there to save our lives and the lives of the people we protect.

    Perhaps if these supervisors are so worried about checkout not getting done properly, they should do their jobs and actually SUPERVISE. If there is any reason for them to mistrust the crews, then there is a much bigger problem, and that usually starts with poor leadership, not leading by example or improper training.

    Completely unacceptable.

  3. #3
    Forum Member nmfire's Avatar
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    that is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. There are other ways to supervise that don't comrpromise life safety.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

  4. #4
    Let's talk fire trucks! BoxAlarm187's Avatar
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    Default

    I have to agree that this is the stupidest and most negligent thing that I have ever seen posted here. How the upper management can support middle management doing something like this is completely beyond me.

    You should print the responses to this thread and hang them up in the station.

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    MembersZone Subscriber fyrmnk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187
    I have to agree that this is the stupidest and most negligent thing that I have ever seen posted here. How the upper management can support middle management doing something like this is completely beyond me.

    You should print the responses to this thread and hang them up in the station.
    That used to be done in my dept. quite a few years ago. They finally realized how STUPID that is and trust the company officers and drivers to do their jobs.

    There is no excuse for messing with or removing equipment.
    FTM-PTB-RFB
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  6. #6
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    Not only is that stupid its unnessessary, they could do the same by slipping notes into equipment "A shift rules, B shift drools, C shift are fools" it gets the same point across without endangering the ability to respond and is kind of funny.

  7. #7
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    The instructors used to slip little tags on things we should be checking, like the engine oil dipstick, inside of the dualies, etc when I was in basic training. If you didn't come up with the right number of tags, start doing pushups.

  8. #8
    Permanently Removed CALFFBOU's Avatar
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    Umm, yeah. Real smart. Then someone gets hurt or killed.

    Time to do several things- Document, document, document. Then notify your state's OHSA office.

    Lastly, I would nofity the local media. Let the local taxpayers know what their dollars are being wasted on and putting public safety in to jeapordy. Doesnt management have anything better to do than "set traps" for it's trusted employees???

    Total joke and no professionalism there. Get on it!

  9. #9
    Forum Member jlcooke3's Avatar
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    Here's a better idea; instead of messing with equipment how about the officer's start being officer's. If the officer's are sitting on there a** and wondering if the machine is getting checked out. Then maybe the need to get the lead out there a** and get out in the engine bay and make sure the check is being done. What a crok of *****.

  10. #10
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    I agree 100% with what others have said above. It's ludacris that tampering and/or removing equipment would be condoned by upper management. The ONLY case that I've heard about where management was insuring truck checks were being complete involved removing "seals" from the zippers on the EMS bag. This would force the person checking the bag to make sure that nothing is missing from that part of the bag. Apparently, the same department also devised a way to "seal" each compartment door of the AFTER they completed their checks. When the next crew came in, in the morning, they were supposed to break the "seal" do a "quick check" (starting saws, fans, etc. etc.) and then "re-seal" the compartment. However, if the seals were broken during the day, the crews were supposed to replace/clean/etc. any used equipment and then "re-seal." NOW, if the compartment was not "sealed" in the morning, the incoming crew had to do a complete check of the equipment.

    So I hear... this "policy" was short-lived! As you can imagine, it tends to promote laziness and management started to notice negative results.

    **I apologize for the long-windedness!
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  11. #11
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    Wow. Major safety issues for all involved. They are trying to teach you to be responsible to complete your duties by compromising your safety? That is so *****backwards. Lazy, ignorant and downright unprofessional. I can understand testing you and jokes but not when it comes to safety with equipment. I agree, print this out and present it at the next meeting or sooner before someone gets hurt. I can see the headlines now. Firefighters loses life due to negligence of officers.
    Last edited by firetruckred; 09-17-2006 at 12:45 AM.

  12. #12
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    A former department had a Battalion Chief who would put a stone on the top of the apparatus sneakily. This would allow him to see if the truck was moved in the morning and the apparatus properly inspected by the Engineer.

    Never had any equipment vandalized though. A couple of the other shifts were famous for leaving equipment around and kind of like playing "Hide & Go Seek" every morning when we did our checks.

    *Mark
    FTM-PTB-RFB-EGH

  13. #13
    IACOJ BOD FlyingKiwi's Avatar
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    One word for them.

    MUTTS
    Psychiatrists state 1 in 4 people has a mental illness.
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  14. #14
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by onlyredtrucks
    In the morning we do checks on all appartus to check that basic equipment is there and in working order...as I suppose most fire departments do. However, we recently discovered that our bosses are purposely messing with equipment to make sure the checks are being performed. We are supposed to "catch" the items they mess with....like disconnecting high pressure lines from SCBA and disconnecting nozzles from high rise packs. We asked upper management about it and they said this was "acceptable" so the bosses could make sure we are doing our checks.

    Does any other department allow this? Does this seem "acceptable"?
    I would immediately call the union and get this practice ended immediately. Purposely sabatoging the equipment is insane.

    If your boss has no problem with it and his bosses don't see any problem with disabling your SCBAs and such it must be OK(turnabouts fair play!)...come up with a new house rule, Everyone checks their own mask(good rule to have anyhow)...and every day disconect the bosses mask, turn his high pressure on...etc. See how long until this bl*w job gets sick of showing up a jobs with a f*cked up mask.

    A few times of being left on the floor below will teach him the errors of his ways.

    If your officer has no concern for your safety or well being...you shouldn't be concerned with his either.

    FTM-PTB

    PS- If I was at a job and had a malfunction and I found out that someone purposely did this....They would be getting a tune-up from me as soon as I made it back to the street. I'm sure all the men I work with would feel the same.
    Last edited by FFFRED; 09-17-2006 at 07:39 AM.

  15. #15
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    Default

    Originally Posted by onlyredtrucks
    In the morning we do checks on all appartus to check that basic equipment is there and in working order...as I suppose most fire departments do. However, we recently discovered that our bosses are purposely messing with equipment to make sure the checks are being performed. We are supposed to "catch" the items they mess with....like disconnecting high pressure lines from SCBA and disconnecting nozzles from high rise packs. We asked upper management about it and they said this was "acceptable" so the bosses could make sure we are doing our checks.

    Does any other department allow this? Does this seem "acceptable"?
    That is not a "boss" ... that is a class "a" Mutt who will probably get someone killed.


    If upper management concurs and condones with this practice, they are mutts, too
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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  16. #16
    Forum Member MaddogDFD5's Avatar
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    your bosses are MORONS........

  17. #17
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    I am firmly in agreement that this is definitely NOT a good idea...if they want to ensure people are doing their work, 1) SUPERVISE the members (as your job title indicates) and 2) MOTIVATE the members to get the job done... scaring them into doing their job (which they are being paid to do BTW) by hoping their equipment isn't sabotaged is NOT the way to get results.

    I agree with FFFRED, you should take this up with your union as your supervisors (line & higher) are creating a dangerous work environment for you
    and your brother FF's. The job is dangerous enough with all the lightweight truss construction, haz-mat/WMD and everything else out there, you don't need to add supervisors to the list of hazards you have to consider when sizing up a job (let's see...ok, time of day, occupancy, manpower..oh yeah, did the boss disconnect my SCBA, water supply...). Wasn't the original reason for the creation of unions in this country to provide (and ensure) safe working conditions????

    If they need a way to check if you guys are doing the job, then use a sign or label attached to the equipment (my chief did this to see if someone was checking something in the building..as they were supposed to)...didn't affect the safety of anyone but pointed out the guy neglected the task assigned to him.

    Just my 2 cents...Stay Safe...and check your SCBA BEFORE you get ON the truck...at the door of the 5th floor apartment charged with smoke and a missing kid is not the place to find out your pack is disconnected...

  18. #18
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Default

    onlyredtrucks: In the morning we do checks on all appartus to check that basic equipment is there and in working order...as I suppose most fire departments do. However, we recently discovered that our bosses are purposely messing with equipment to make sure the checks are being performed. We are supposed to "catch" the items they mess with....like disconnecting high pressure lines from SCBA and disconnecting nozzles from high rise packs. We asked upper management about it and they said this was "acceptable" so the bosses could make sure we are doing our checks.

    Does any other department allow this? Does this seem "acceptable"?
    I shook my head in amazement that this kind of nonsense would go on in the firehouse. It reminded me of when I worked for pizza hut and the manager would slide a plate under the pizza oven to see if we were mopping under there or not. Pretty soon we just would reach under there and pull out the plate and PURPOSELY not mop to show that ***** what we thought of his games.

    Does your department have a health and safety committee? If you do I would contact them IMMEDIATELY and tell them what is going on. As others have said document EVERYTHING. This is serious enough in my mind that a grievance should be filed if they don't stop this right now. I would also have your Union lawyer point out that the officer and the FD would be responsible for any injuries or deaths caused by this childish nonsense.

    As an aside, I would every time you find something tampered with write it up and give a copy to your company officer (though it seems hard to call anyone with this mindset an officer), forward one to the Chief, your maintenance Chief and the Union. Bury the FD in paperwork about the problems. AND not one sheet with several items but write each one up individually and use a seperate interoffice envelope for each item. The mere pain in the *** of this may make them stop where otherwise it might become a long protracted battle.

    I can't help but just visualize this jag off, rubbing his hands together, thinking to himself "How can I f### with the boys today?"

    A damn shame that this is preferable to the management of your FD than actually expecting an officer to do his job.

    FyredUp

  19. #19
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    This is by far one of the most stupid and dangerous things that I have heard in some time. As a supervisor I am there when our units are checked each shift. I am not there to micromanage but to learn and help them if there is a problem with some piece of equipment.

    Like someone stated before it time for city management and the media to be made aware of this. Someone will be hurt or killed because of these actions by the bosses
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  20. #20
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    Four things to prove negligence

    Duty to Act - Officer's have a duty to protect their crew and the citizens they serve

    Breach of Duty - Obviously the duty to their crew was breached. If the officer's actions delayed operations they breached their duty to the citizens

    Injuries - Yes it will happen, when not if.

    Proximate cause - Hell yes they would be the cause if they are tampering with PPE

    Hey, wake up dumb ***** officers and do your job. I have a DIP$HIT chief that would fit right in with these idiots.

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