"Firehouse" by David Halberstam.......

[clipse]

Wow. I bought this book Saturday and finished it last night. Fighting back some emotions was difficult at best. I have seen several reports/documentary's/movies on 9/11 but this puts it in a whole new perspective. Deffinately a must read. I saw it suggested as a good book on this forum, thats why I got it. I'm glad I did.

Thanks,
clipse

[Itsmy6]

i might have to pick that up. Thanks for the review.

[BFDLT32]

Wow. I bought this book Saturday and finished it last night. Fighting back some emotions was difficult at best. I have seen several reports/documentary's/movies on 9/11 but this puts it in a whole new perspective. Deffinately a must read. I saw it suggested as a good book on this forum, thats why I got it. I'm glad I did.

Thanks,
clipse

E40L35 RIP brothers

[JHR1985]

This is a little bit off topic... but does anyone know how much guilt a man would feel if he swapped out with a guy that day.... and that guy didnt make it home. That is something that would haunt me forever

[firetruckred]

This is a little bit off topic... but does anyone know how much guilt a man would feel if he swapped out with a guy that day.... and that guy didn't make it home. That is something that would haunt me forever

I am sorry but if I don't reply to this I won't sleep well.

JHR forgive me but.....

First of all, yes a few guys know that feeling and some are on here. I don't want to say you are inconsiderate in saying what you said but you might think for a minute how horrible that above comment may feel and you are adding salt to a wound. It seems you feel awful/have compassion for the FF's who are dealing with this...send your prayers instead of a comment that cuts the heart.

Second GUILT is a difficult thing to deal with. WHEN it is YOUR fault that you DELIBRITLY do something to harm someone, you must deal with a guilty conscience. No one delibritily switched days. It is all in God's plan, the universe, karma, whatever you want to call it, that the cards were dealt that way, that day. It was already written, Nobody's at fault, nobody should feel guilty, even so, guilt plays a major role, The brothers who are here today are here for a reason. Maybe to save other firefighters and lives. Maybe to make a HUGE difference in the world of Firefighting,which some are doing. Maybe to make lives better all around them...who knows.... but I hope each one of those blessed Firefighters that were not there on that dreadful day knows it has nothing to do with them. What they did or didn't do. They did their daily lives. Someone else was suppose to be called that day. Not them.

Speaking from my own experience....not a firefighting one...but a tragic one... You must try very hard not beat yourself up and be haunted as you say, the rest of your life. They wouldn't want that and you have no control over if the brother/sister takes the bullet next to you. It just happens. Guilt is only Necessary when it is YOUR FAULT. Nobody is at fault. Somebody else is making those calls. You have to try your best to understand that. Move on and be a blessing to those around you. Survivors guilt is a rotten thing, but pretty normal.

[RspctFrmCalgary]

This is a little bit off topic... but does anyone know how much guilt a man would feel if he swapped out with a guy that day.... and that guy didnt make it home. That is something that would haunt me forever

You know, when I saw this thread when it was first posted and was planning what I was going to say when I had time to reply, I thought I would just say that it is even harder to read when you are friends with an E40L35 firefighter ..... but that last comment just rips my heart out!

[RspctFrmCalgary]

Red, I had a much different post ready to submit when I decided to ask a crusty friend for his opinion on my post. You were more diplomatic in your

I don't want to say you are inconsiderate in saying what you said but you might think for a minute how horrible that above comment may feel and you are adding salt to a wound.

reply than I was.

[firetruckred]

Another thing.... If you don't believe in angels....I am sorry for your soul.

[firetruckred]

Red, I had a much different post ready to submit when I decided to ask a crusty friend for his opinion on my post. You were more diplomatic in your reply than I was.

OH TRUST ME!! I was holding back! You don't even know....

Go ahead fire away...if you think it may help. Make your point. I will back you all the way.

There are few things that hurt me more than that day. Few things that hurt me more than the broken hearts of the Firefighters that survived that day and the pain of the children and wives etc. We all suffer tragedy in life, I have suffered my fair share. Honestly I am trying to learn to NOT react.

I had more than a few choice words, but I have learned I can't blast someone who doesn't know any better. Ignorance is not stupidity, it is not knowing something or lack of experience. Stupidity is a whole different story. I am sure he did not mean to hurt anyone. I have to try to not be mad at people who say and do things that hurt. It is very hard. I have little tolerance for mean people. That comment was not deliberate or mean. I know it was not meant to break your heart, something needed to be said though!

[RspctFrmCalgary]

No, I'm not going to respond further, out of respect for the friend I'm referring to, and for my other friends and acquaintances with the FDNY.

So I will leave it as I originally posted, for now.



Edited: I guess I should mention that this was in response to a PM I received last night, in case anyone is wondering why it is worded the way it is.

[E40FDNYL35]

This is a little bit off topic... but does anyone know how much guilt a man would feel if he swapped out with a guy that day.... and that guy didnt make it home. That is something that would haunt me forever

If I would have read this post a couple of years ago I would have been all over it. BUT...it is what it is.

David did a good job on the stories of my friends...


and THANKS

[GFDLT1]

I am sorry but if I don't reply to this I won't sleep well.

JHR forgive me but.....

First of all, yes a few guys know that feeling and some are on here. I don't want to say you are inconsiderate in saying what you said but you might think for a minute how horrible that above comment may feel and you are adding salt to a wound. It seems you feel awful/have compassion for the FF's who are dealing with this...send your prayers instead of a comment that cuts the heart.

Second GUILT is a difficult thing to deal with. WHEN it is YOUR fault that you DELIBRITLY do something to harm someone, you must deal with a guilty conscience. No one delibritily switched days. It is all in God's plan, the universe, karma, whatever you want to call it, that the cards were dealt that way, that day. It was already written, Nobody's at fault, nobody should feel guilty, even so, guilt plays a major role, The brothers who are here today are here for a reason. Maybe to save other firefighters and lives. Maybe to make a HUGE difference in the world of Firefighting,which some are doing. Maybe to make lives better all around them...who knows.... but I hope each one of those blessed Firefighters that were not there on that dreadful day knows it has nothing to do with them. What they did or didn't do. They did their daily lives. Someone else was suppose to be called that day. Not them.

Speaking from my own experience....not a firefighting one...but a tragic one... You must try very hard not beat yourself up and be haunted as you say, the rest of your life. They wouldn't want that and you have no control over if the brother/sister takes the bullet next to you. It just happens. Guilt is only Necessary when it is YOUR FAULT. Nobody is at fault. Somebody else is making those calls. You have to try your best to understand that. Move on and be a blessing to those around you. Survivors guilt is a rotten thing, but pretty normal.

I couldn't have said it better myself. You have hit the nail on the head!


By the way, I agree it was a good book that I couldn't put down either when I read it.

KTF-EGH-RFB

[firetruckred]

I hear you and agree with you. Honestly.... I am glad you did not respond any further. I saw it right when it posted and I thought OMG this is not good, thinking this may get ugly fast : (. Was kind of hoping to defuse it.

What was said was needed and that's it. No need for 12 people to throw hurtful words, that serves no purpose. Like E40 says....it was what it was.

My purpose in responding was to take up for anyone who may feel gulity after reading that comment. It is enough to deal with without heaping guilt on yourself. I just don't want them to hurt and I know you and I were on the same page. I also wanted to inform this person that what he said was wrong and hurtful. It is my hope that by saying the above post he thinks before he speaks concerning this matter and does not say something like this to a FF in person. Ofcourse one can only wish and has no control over what other people say but maybe it might make a difference. Worth a try.

[NYSmokey]

A shining example of the types of men who made the supreme sacrifice on 9/11. May they all rest in peace.

[firetruckred]

This is a website given to me by a FDNY. It moved me. I do not have the adequate words to say how glad I am to have read it. It is about Kevin Shea, Frank Callahan and the fallen brothers of E40/L35.

Walk with Angels E40/L35.

http://www.fdnylodd.com/kevin.html

[RspctFrmCalgary]

When Ray first shared Kevin's story with me, it moved me beyond what words can now describe.

I saw the 911 Remembered thread as soon as it was posted. My first instinct was to say Kevin Shea, but I didn't know how well that would go over, as the purpose of the thread initially seemed to be in honor only of those lost. So I chose to remember Michael Otten.

Kevin's story still touches me deeply and always will.

Thanks for the link. I don't have time right now to check the site out, but I will put it on my favs, unless I already have it.

[RspctFrmCalgary]

Yes, I already have that on my favs.

Makes me cry every time I read it, most recently a few weeks ago of course.

[BFDLT32]

Sheri, Melissa THANKS

Enough said

[clipse]

I usually write alot more about something that I'm telling people about. This book though......there is not much that you can actually put into words. It deffinately put me in a very somber mood and I'm still there.

clipse