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View Poll Results: Hose reel instead of crosslay

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  1. #1
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    Default Hose Reel instead of Crosslay

    A couple of days ago the wife and I were discussing random fire stuff and we somehow got onto the topic of preconnected crosslays. Neither of us are a big fan of the current lay that we have at our new station, we much prefer the minuteman loads we had before we moved up here. Anyhow, we also have a rescue that has a very small tank on it. The hose for this is something I've never encountered before. It's a reel of 150' of 1"3/4 that you pull off what you need, break it and connect it to the pump panel. Works pretty good for us, keeps it out of the way, pretty much never really use it.

    But it got me thinking. Anyone ever tried this or atleast thought of it; instead of preconnected crosslays having a reel of 1"3/4 (not plumbed). You get there and you just grab the nozzle and go. Once you reach the door or have atleast got a good amount of hose out, someone at the pump (presumebly the engineer) pulls off another section or two and breaks it then connects it to the pump.

    I realize that it adds some extra time to the process, but it would most assuredly help with preventing spaghetti on the ground next to the pump and would be a heck of a lot easier to repack.

    Any thoughts?
    Fir Na Tine
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  2. #2
    Let's talk fire trucks! BoxAlarm187's Avatar
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    Default

    I have seen pre-plumbed 1.75" preconnects on reels (over the pump panel) on rigs in both Charles City County, VA and White Stone, VA. I haven't had a chance to talk to the guys to see how well they work, though...

  3. #3
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    Preplumbed huh? That would speed things up, but I'd be way too worried about not getting all of it off the reel and accidentally charging it, that'd be worse than charging it still in the bed.
    Fir Na Tine
    Fir Na Au Saol

  4. #4
    Forum Member VinnieB's Avatar
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    Sure seen it and used it....everytime it was pulled it was short. No matter what...the reel was limited to 150' of line...anymore and the reel wouldn't spin. Eventually a few resourcefull members got wise and cut this thing off the engine. Bear in mind...this was a vollie dept in a rural area. 150 of line barley made the mains stairs in most of the 2.5 story split ranch PD that were in the district.

    If you have a big enough reel that can reach 99% of your stretches...then go with it.....but always have a bed or a plan that can reach the other 1%.
    IACOJ Member

  5. #5
    Forum Member Res343cue's Avatar
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    Edit..

    NeedleJockey, take a trip over to South Burlington Fire... Give them a call before just to make sure they aren't busy. Their front line engines don't have crosslays... They have reels on each side. Lots of hose, a few hundred feet.

    Works slicker then **** for them. Easy to pull too. 2.5" lines in the rear off the bed.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleMan
    Why? Because we are firemen. We are decent human beings. We would be compelled by the overwhelming impulse to save an innocent child from a tragic, painful death because in the end, we are MEN.

    I A C O J
    FTM-PTB


    Honorary Disclaimer: While I am a manufacturer representative, I am not here to sell my product. Any advice or knowledge shared is for informational purposes only. I do not use Firehouse.Com for promotional purposes.

  6. #6
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    Needle ...

    Former Colchester Center firefighter here.

    CCVFC has been using reels for our 1.75" and 2" for about 15 years now (since 1990) and it works great. Our last 3 engines were ordered with 2 large reels built to hold attack lines over the pump panel and to me it's a great system. Each reel holds 300'-400' of attack line, plus we still carry (2) 200' preconnects on the rear bed. The use of reels allows you to pull exactly what you need .... you can take that 100' off for a dumpster fire or 300' off for that house you just can't quite reach with the 200' pre-con. It also gives you enough spare line that you can pull 3, or 4 attack lines off a single engine for those larger fires.

    Only downside is that it's obviously not preconnected ... but it works well as pump operator helps pull it off, breaks his own connection and then connects it to the discharge (2nd firefighter will do all of that if it's on the passenger side). With a little practice it can deployed almost as quickly as a preconnect. But when it comes to pickup, especially daytime, the reels are SWEET. Takes almost no time at all and 2 men can do it with almost no effort.

  7. #7
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    Take a look in the apparatus forum for rolled bumper lines. It seems a few in PG Co. and the guys up in Sister Bay WI have mastered the load which is great. We're lloking a switching over to it. Basically its donut rolls connected to each other, preconnected to a discharge and nozzle. You have a loop at each roll connection that you put your arm through. All the hose pays out in 25' in nices S pattern and you walk away dragging the line, dropping each loop when it tightens. If you estimated your stretch right and pulle dthe appropriate line you should end up at the objective with some working hose all nicely lai out.

  8. #8
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    So the idea being that the nozzle man and backup start pulling the hose into the house, when they get to the first fire room, they radio back to the pump operator (who I guess is standing around waiting) to disconnect the hose and charge it. That leaves the nozzleman and backup with how much hose (at their end, not 100' back by the engine) to maneuver with? Then I'm thinking about how much fun it must be to pull that line off the reel up stairs, around corners, etc. And then I'm thinking can they move another 25' or so past where they first called for it to be disconnected?

    Maybe we are different, but we try to leave our nozzle man with about 20' of hose a few feet back from him. That leaves some line to maneuver with easily and allows them to continue into the fire room without dragging 100+' of hose.

    Can the reels work? I'm sure they do. We used booster lines off reels for years....and the above reasons are part of why we stopped using them.

    Whatever you use, just be able to use it well.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  9. #9
    Forum Member Chauffeur6's Avatar
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    While not entirely the same, on one of our pumpers we took the 1" hard booster line off the reel above the pump panel and swapped it out with something like 800' of 1" forestry hose. Since that truck runs first due to brush, rubbish and the like, it works out great. Lighter and easier to deploy than the booster, breaking it and connecting it to the pump panel only takes a few seconds and rewinding it is obviously a breeze.

    What I don't like about it though is that the hose usually gets reeled up wet, which inevitably leads to mildew and rot because no air can get between the layers of rolled up hose. At least with a crosslay there's a bit more breathing room for air to dry it out. So even if it is easy to roll up, you're just going to have to reel it out again at the station and replace it with dry hose (unless you carry spare on the truck already).

    If you have x amount of feet of hose, and it's NOT preconnected at the reel, I assume the last coupling is free to fly right off the reel once you've pulled it all? If the guy stretching the line is already out of site, how does he know when to stop? While you're shouting at him and chasing after the coupling? And then, once it's time to reel it up, someone has to get up on top of the truck to wrap the first few feet around the reel anyway to get it started.

    I think reels take up entirely too much space, especially if you're talking 1.75" or better hose (we use 2" handlines). I really can't see having anything less than 200' of handline per preconnect/load, so for 200' of 2" you'll need a fairly sizable reel, and I'm guessing most pumpers will have at least two of them. Which leads me to the other thing I don't like about them. It would take up even more room if you put them side by side front to back over the pump panel, so I'm guessing they're usually mounted back to back across the truck, one on each side. Which means it's a major hassle to pull both lines off one side of the truck, in contrast to a crosslay where the whole purpose of it being transverse is so you CAN pull it off either side quickly and efficiently.

    It's definitely not faster rolling out 200' of hose off a reel than it is grabbing a preconnect, tossing it over your shoulder and going. With the reel, you have to pull as you go, which means you encounter all the resistance of the reel as well as the hose drag once it hits the ground. You also have to basically walk straight out from the truck, you can't drop the hose behind you as you walk like you can with a crosslay draped over your shoulder.

    I'll stick to crosslays, thank you. In my mind, the negatives far outweigh any positives, which seem to me only to be ease of repacking. I'm certainly not lazy enough that I can't take a few minutes to properly pack up a crosslay instead of pushing a button.

  10. #10
    Forum Member Res343cue's Avatar
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    For it to go smooth and not have too many issues....

    Nozzle man takes the tip, and starts walking. Gets 20 or so feet away, doubles back real quick and grabs slings the 2 20 foot "sections" over his shoulder. If they're gonna pull 200 feet, the next guy will wait until the next coupling and then walk out the next 100 as the engineer pulls it off the reel. Works pretty well if you have the manpower to do it, and takes about the same amount of time compared to pulling a crosslay.

    The mildew isn't a problem since we have mostly rubber coated house on the reels. As you're taking up, one guy holds a towel to the line getting all the dirt off, and the other presses the button and feeds it onto the reel.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleMan
    Why? Because we are firemen. We are decent human beings. We would be compelled by the overwhelming impulse to save an innocent child from a tragic, painful death because in the end, we are MEN.

    I A C O J
    FTM-PTB


    Honorary Disclaimer: While I am a manufacturer representative, I am not here to sell my product. Any advice or knowledge shared is for informational purposes only. I do not use Firehouse.Com for promotional purposes.

  11. #11
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    Actually it works quite well ....

    Crew outsides estimates how much line they'll need .. which was usually 200" for most applications ... engineeer flakes it off while the 2 firefighters stretch it in the yard to the door ... 2nd man works out the kinks after it's charged before they enter the structure (our policy was NO uncharged lines in a structure) and away they go.

    As 343 said it takes no longer do deploy than a crosslay with training and gives you the flexability to pull whatever you think you need. Works well as there are no piles at the base of the crosslay. I used it as our primary way to pull line for almost 15 years and it's a nice system.

    We used the plastic hose so mildrew wasn't and issue and all the line on the reels were in 100' lengths so keeping track of how much you pulled off as the pump operator was a breeze.

    As I said we had 2 reels of 400' each reel per engine, so 800' on reels plus another (2) 200' minuteman loads on the rear of each, so we carried 1200' of 1.75" line on each of our 3 newest engines. The older engines with the booster-sized reels only carried 200' on one reel.. we kept booster on the other reel as they were used in brush situations.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 09-23-2006 at 07:15 PM.

  12. #12
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    To all:

    This may be a little off subject, but does anyone have 5" LDH on a reel. I believe I saw this in Boston and wondered how well it worked. Does anyone else use this or have they seen it used, and if so, how well does it work?

    rfd599
    www.IllinoisFireStore.com

  13. #13
    firefighter7160
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    Default Red Line

    I still love the red line. Nothing like going in a house with a 1 inch line......LMAO....j/k

    www.pineblufffire.com

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by rfd599
    To all:

    This may be a little off subject, but does anyone have 5" LDH on a reel. I believe I saw this in Boston and wondered how well it worked. Does anyone else use this or have they seen it used, and if so, how well does it work?

    rfd599
    www.IllinoisFireStore.com
    http://www.ujfd.org/ has a truck with 5" LDH....

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by rfd599
    To all:

    This may be a little off subject, but does anyone have 5" LDH on a reel. I believe I saw this in Boston and wondered how well it worked. Does anyone else use this or have they seen it used, and if so, how well does it work?

    rfd599
    www.IllinoisFireStore.com
    Essex Fire Dept in VT. (not too be confused with Essex Junction Fire Dept, even though we're in the same area and respond mutual aid all the time together).

    essexfire.org
    Fir Na Tine
    Fir Na Au Saol

  16. #16
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    I was also on the Essex Fire Department from 1983-87 when they had thier original reel truck. It carried a little under 2000' of 4", 300 gallons of water and had a front-mount 1000 gpm pumper. The reel worked very well, as it allowed us to lay down the hose quite quickly, and allowed us to pick it up even faster.

    There were several other departments in VT that also had reel trucks, including Cambridge. A few, even had smaller reels on smaller chassis, such as F450s, which worked quite well.

  17. #17
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    Default Crosslays vs. Reels

    We've had great success with reels since the 1970's era. Our Class A pumpers have had two attack reels located in the rear of the apparatus. The idea is to allow the engine to pull a little past the incident to allow room for the ladder company. Each reel has 200' of 1.75 preconnect attack lines that are "triple packed" so essentially the nozzleman is only pulling approx 66' of hose which flakes itself out. We also have crosslays on our apparatus which work well when packed correctly but only use them if additional lines are needed. Anyone interested in seeing pics of the engine feel free to e-mail me.

    Captain Stephen Kane
    Laurel Springs Fire Dept.
    New Jersey
    skane602@hotmail.com

  18. #18
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    Default Check it out...

    http://www.qvec.org/FDS%20TO%20REDO/...e_tank_190.htm

    Scroll down to the second picture. Looks like it would work. Dalmatian190 on these boards can give you more information. He is/was a member.

  19. #19
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    Probably the most unusual feature of the rear of the ET 190 is the "Charged Lines." Yes, that's standard structural fire hose, 200' of 1.5" on the bottom and 150' of 1.75" on the top reel. We rewind it, maintaining about 50psi on the hose. The advantage is... need only 50', pull only 50' and you have water.
    Not unusual for us to have a team at the doorway already attacking the fire with fifty or sixty feet of hose off the truck, while other members are pulling the rest of the line off the reel!
    Now that is one of the most unique and interesting things I have ever seen done in the fire service. Leaving attack lines precharged with some residual pressure and then rolled up. I like it. It's weird, but I still like it.
    Fir Na Tine
    Fir Na Au Saol

  20. #20
    Forum Member Chauffeur6's Avatar
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    Wow, that is very unique indeed. I've never seen or even heard of such a thing. It's like taking the booster reel non-collapsible hose concept to the next level.

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