1. #1
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    Default Ford F750 Vs. International 4200 as pumper tanker

    Hi all.

    Looking for opinions and info in regards to F750 4x4 Crew cab chassis Vs. International 4200 4x4 chassis.

    Are there any custom chassis that can compair pricewise with these 2 chassis?

    The finished appparatus would be a pumper tanker, likely rear mount CAFS, close to 2000 gallons, nothing to fancy. Automatic trany, 4x4 a must.

    If anybody has a piece of apparatus similar to this I would be very greatfull for any pictures you would share or for any information/opinions you have on the unit.

    THANKS!!!
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    I dont have much experience with International as fire apparatus, other than the truck that Malahat VFD had when I first joined - was shortly replaced by a FL70 Engine.

    However, I did drive an International T466 (I think thats a 4200 chassis) as an oil tanker. Most gutless piece of junk that I've ever had to drive (other than my own piece of junk thats for sale in my driveway LOL). Brakes wouldn't hold with a full load (7000 litres) of fuel on an incline, couldn't manually down shift the transmission while on an downhill run either.

    Not sure if its an issue at your end of the world but it SUCKED in snow/ice conditions too. I was travelling down hill at about 35 mph under frost conditions and one light tap of the brakes near put me sideways.
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    the 4200 would be a lil light for that application, i think a bump to to the 4400, or 4900 would be alot better. The dept i just joined up with took delievery of a 1600 gallon tanker on a 4200, and its just right. Has way more than enough power, brakes so far have stopped the thing really well. Were gonna see in the coming months how the snow and ice drivability of it is. Just remember your weight of the truck with all the tools, and all the firefighters and everything.

  4. #4
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    [QUOTE=MalahatTwo7]
    However, I did drive an International T466 (I think thats a 4200 chassis) as an oil tanker. Most gutless piece of junk that I've ever had to drive (other than my own piece of junk thats for sale in my driveway LOL). Brakes wouldn't hold with a full load (7000 litres) of fuel on an incline, couldn't manually down shift the transmission while on an downhill run either.
    QUOTE]

    Sounds more like the T444E (or 444E), than the DT466.
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    HFRH28, all I can tell you for certain is when I see the same chassis, I know EXACTLY what truck it is. Its been almost 2yrs since I drove that P.O.S. and I am much happier for it, although the pay was really good....... and paid EVERY Friday too.
    If you don't do it RIGHT today, when will you have time to do it over? (Hall of Fame basketball player/coach John Wooden)

    "I may be slow, but my work is poor." Chief Dave Balding, MVFD

    "Its not Rocket Science. Just use a LITTLE imagination." (Me)

    Get it up. Get it on. Get it done!

    impossible solved cotidie. miracles postulo viginti - quattuor hora animadverto

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  6. #6
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    Our (US Forest Service) water tenders are built on an International 7400, DT530 engine (300 HP), 5 speed Allison automatic and a transmisson retarder. It has a 350 gpm pump, 1500 gallons of water and 20 of class A foam. Ours are not 4x4 but that is an option for the chassis.

    I haven't had alot of time behind the wheel of one of these but the little time I did get, I was quite happy. Enough power to pull a steep grade and still resemble the speed limit. The retarder won't slow us down like it does in the engines but it does maintain the speed so you don't use your brakes much coming down a grade.

    Ours are not 4x4, in the past we have run Fords, Chevys and Internationals, all our new engines are on International chassis, my understanding this is in part because of the prior experience with the 4x4 Fords. (This may have changed but I don't believe it has), Ford does not have a factory F650+ 4x4, so if you want a 4x4 it gets sent for a conversion, International does sell a 4x4, the Internationals also sit lower, the 4x4 Fords look more like monster trucks because of the layout of the motor, differential etc.

    The 4x4 Ford F800's we got in the early - mid 90's have been replaced early due to maintenace issues with the 4x4 system (they wouldn't stay out of the shop), the recent International 4x4's are starting to get hanger queen reputations too. Both the International and Ford 2 wheel drive versions have worked out well. I have heard a preference for the International Crewcab over the Ford Crewcab regarding back seat comfort.

    As all of the medium duty trucks seem to have had pretty heavy make overs in the past 5 years I wouldn't pass over having a look at Freightliner and GM 6500 as well.

    Personally I have found the Internationals to be good reliable trucks, but that has also been the majority of what I have driven with an odd Ford thrown in. The Fords were not bad either (I'm probably not helping am I )

    This was the only pic I could find online of one of the current tenders, they are built by Pierce. There is a top rack for snap tanks, hose etc, there are 2 roll up doors at the rear, the typical load is 2 1000 gallon snap tanks, 600-1000 feet of 1.5" & 1" hose, a Mark 3 portable pump, chainsaw, fuel for the saw and pump, small assortment of hand tools, tool box, medical kit and personal gear, we usually operate with a driver and 1 firefighter.

    http://www.wildlandfire.com/pics/equip8/stdwt.jpg

  7. #7
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    NonSurfin raised some good points here. I'm not a fan of Frightliners (Yes, I always spell it that way ) after we've had a gazillion of them as Ambulances. Medic Master boxes are pretty good, but the FL 60 is a POC. For a Factory Built 4X4, I've always been partial to GM for anything over 1 ton, and GM, Dodge, and Ford are all OK for 1 ton or less. I don't think it will be a problem on a bigger 4X4, but on the smaller ones, I refuse to buy one without self-locking Hubs. Having to get out in the mud or snow to lock your front hubs is STUPID! One place to look to see what the different size 4X4s do is the local electric Utility. Lots of big 4X4s there. My "Work Truck" will soon be a new GM 4X4 Type III or Type IV, and I'll need to do some work to set it up for "Local Conditions" on my District. Hopefully, I'll be able to dig this thread up next Spring, and be able to add a photo or two, along with the good and bad observations.
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    Default Gm

    a GMC/chevy 7500 is probably comparable, dunno ifthey make 4x4, i know they do through the 5500. Kenworth/peterbilt would also be would

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    the one dept. I used to be on had a 4900 with a dt466 in it, you talk about the gutless wonder, you would be lucky to make it to the scene before the fire was out!! only 2000 gallon tank on it so it wasn't like we was trying to haul a huge tanker with it

  10. #10
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    After talking with a truck designer last night I believe that the only option would be a 7400 International.

    The way he put it is that the F750 and 7400 are medium duty trucks, 7400 can have much higher GVW.

    4200 is a light duty truck for this class.

    But he did say that International is looking at making a 4100 which would be intended to compete with the F550 Ford.

    That might be a neat truck for mini pumpers.

    I have found that I know very little about truck chassis in this research!

    I know even less about custom (Spartan, etc...) chassis.
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