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  1. #1
    Forum Member nyckftbl's Avatar
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    Default 1st due to commercial bldgs?

    I have seen or heard of a lot of places that make their TL 1st due to commercail bldgs. What is your reasoning for that? Anyone want to take a stab?
    Proud East Coast Traditionalist.


  2. #2
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    My sister company runs their TL first due period. My company runs an Engine first due. Why? Because as a Department, we felt this best suited our needs.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Depends on the type of occupancy. lumber yard vs office building vs pharmacy. what is a TL, truck or ladder?
    J

  4. #4
    Forum Member nyckftbl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42
    My sister company runs their TL first due period. My company runs an Engine first due. Why? Because as a Department, we felt this best suited our needs.

    Well that is understandable, because you are still getting an Engine and a Ladder there together. I should have clarified myself. I meant single company responses, no mutual aid, why have your TL respond before the engine?
    Proud East Coast Traditionalist.

  5. #5
    Forum Member Res343cue's Avatar
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    ....POSITIONING!

    Yup, it's a training issue, but for the majority of fires in this area the pumps are parked where a tower or ladder company "should" be positioned. Sending the TL first gets it in the front of the building.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleMan
    Why? Because we are firemen. We are decent human beings. We would be compelled by the overwhelming impulse to save an innocent child from a tragic, painful death because in the end, we are MEN.

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  6. #6
    firefighter7160
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    Default Just 1

    We send 2 on are first alarm. Its all about placement here. Not doing any good behind three engine companies.

  7. #7
    Forum Member nyckftbl's Avatar
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    Positioning? That seems kind of ridiculous. You should be training you chauffers to position your rigs correctly, so you dont tie up a TL in an area where it may not be useful.

    Dont you think it makes more sense to have your engine co. first?
    Proud East Coast Traditionalist.

  8. #8
    Forum Member Res343cue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl
    Positioning? That seems kind of ridiculous. You should be training you chauffers to position your rigs correctly, so you dont tie up a TL in an area where it may not be useful.

    Dont you think it makes more sense to have your engine co. first?
    Rediculous? I TOTALLY AGREE.

    Our aerials only get used for master streams, so what does positioning matter, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleMan
    Why? Because we are firemen. We are decent human beings. We would be compelled by the overwhelming impulse to save an innocent child from a tragic, painful death because in the end, we are MEN.

    I A C O J
    FTM-PTB


    Honorary Disclaimer: While I am a manufacturer representative, I am not here to sell my product. Any advice or knowledge shared is for informational purposes only. I do not use Firehouse.Com for promotional purposes.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl
    Positioning? That seems kind of ridiculous. You should be training you chauffers to position your rigs correctly, so you dont tie up a TL in an area where it may not be useful.

    Dont you think it makes more sense to have your engine co. first?
    The answer to your question is likely "uhhhhh.....because we do" from alot of places. I think what youre referring to is the tower going first if its a quint, no? I know some places that do things that way.

    In the world of fire apparatus drivers doing simply that...driving, skill and proficiency have fallen victim to the need to get rigs on te street to keep from looking bad. Its easier to train a bunch of chimpanzees to be drivers and assume that, based on the odds, they wont be going to any real jobs for a while. At least this way xyz fd shows the public they care and they really can get the rigs out Seems like alot of drivers won't position a rig without specific instructions from an officer and usually the incident commander. Kinda sad where things have gone these days, and once its positioned they follow the labels on their panel of what to pump or how to raise the stick.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl
    Positioning? That seems kind of ridiculous. You should be training you chauffers to position your rigs correctly, so you dont tie up a TL in an area where it may not be useful.

    Dont you think it makes more sense to have your engine co. first?

    I don't have to worry about our "Chauffers" (even though they do more than drive and open the door for us), I have to worry about the second or third due guys blocking us out.

  11. #11
    Forum Member Chauffeur6's Avatar
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    Back when it first came in, we experimented with our rearmount quint being first due. We figured it would be nice having it right in front of the building, prime choice of location at all times. That was a short lived experiment. What can I say, it was our first quint and we had to find out the benefits and limitations somehow. I couldn't even imagine it or our tower ladder being first due now, and they're both quints. The pump on those trucks is to make it easier to control master stream ops and not have to rely on an engine, the tank is there for emergencies and the handlines are there for exterior ops if needed. Or maybe if you're on the road and come across a car fire, you can knock it down. Second due? Sure, no problem, but we usually have two engines on scene anyway by the time either one arrives. As far as anyone running a dry ladder out first due...now that I really can't comprehend whatsoever.

  12. #12
    MembersZone Subscriber jfTL41's Avatar
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    Default

    Personally I'd like to have the engine get there first positioned properly and put the fire out so you don't need the tower ladder. Leave room for it in case you will need it.

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    Here positioning is never an issue. It's always the same and the truck always gets the front of the building with first engine in front of it and second engine backing down on it. If the only reason a TL is your first due is to get it in front, you should just train everyone to leave the front open for it and let the engines do their job.
    I am a complacent liability to the fire service

  14. #14
    Forum Member NDeMarse's Avatar
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    While I agree with Jaimie and Steve about the Engines needing to get in first and get water on the fire, I think that room should be left in front of the store for a TOWER LADDER. Even an aerial ladder should leave room for a Tower Ladder in front of the store so that in the event that the fire does go defensive (and lets face it, many times we do), the bucket can be dropped to the storefront level and we can sweep the store and underside of the roof with the master stream to knock down an advanced fire condition. Notice I didn't say pour water through the roof vent holes that we worked so hard to cut for the past 20 minutes!

    Aerial Ladders don't do much for us at these buildings. Most of the buildings are 1 story and can be easily reached with a straight ladder (20') or 24' extension. If an aerial ladder can hit the roof and still leave enough room for a tower ladder or two then by all means set them up for more access/egress options. Like I said before, with the manpower, building construction, fire load and advanced fire conditions on arrival, we do not get a chance to get the upper hand and remain offensive on these fires.

    In short, the engine should roll first to start what we are there to do: Put water on the fire. The Aerial Ladder if it is first due should leave room for a later arriving tower ladder even if it is not on the assignment yet.
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    Forum Member WBenner's Avatar
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    Well we have a Engine on the 1st in assignment and the ladder second.Followed up by a 2nd engine 3rd in. We always leave side "A" for the ladder. 1st in Engine is attack or S&R. The 2nd in Engine takes on the standpipe and water supply. sometimes the ladder is parked on the building corners if rescue is an issue. Once its committed were stuck with that dicision. We never have the ladder lead in.

  16. #16
    Forum Member cellblock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcfd45
    what is a TL, truck or ladder?
    J
    I was wondering that myself. What is TL?
    Steve
    EMT/Security Officer

  17. #17
    Forum Member NDeMarse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cellblock
    I was wondering that myself. What is TL?
    Cellblock,

    A TL is short for "Tower Ladder" or an aerial ladder with a work platform.

    Aerial ladders can be referred to as ladder, truck or aerial ladders. Some departments even call their tower ladders, "trucks" or "ladders".
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by cellblock
    I was wondering that myself. What is TL?
    T ower L adder
    I am a complacent liability to the fire service

  19. #19
    Forum Member cellblock's Avatar
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    Thanks for clearing that up.
    Steve
    EMT/Security Officer

  20. #20
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    And while I agree with NDeMarse on the "street" level operation of the TL, it's not very practical in most of my situations. Unfortunately, due to the size of the TL, jack spread, and street width...it's almost impossible to get it at street level in a good bunch of my area. We use portable deck guns to accomplish the same task and they work almost as well.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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