Hydrant cap chains

[dragenrider]

A nearby city has decided to remove the chains linking the caps to the body of the hydrant. Their reasoning is sound in that the chains tend to bind after several coats of paint and from rust. Is this a common practice and does NFPA or any other fire code address placement or removal of chains?

Thanks!

[Chauffeur6]

I'm not sure of what standard (if any) would require the use of chains, but they are a pain in the butt sometimes. They definitely do bind up and impede getting the cap off quickly. On a few occassions, I've had them so bad I actually had to cut them myself with a bolt cutter just to get the thing open.

[VinnieB]

When we are out doing hydrants or ever come across a chain on a run...we break it. As chauff said, the chain impeeds quick removal of the cap. We also only put the 4" cap (if there is one) back on with only a few turns...same reasoning...when I get to the hydrant, I should only have to give it a quick hand over hand twist and the thing should fall off. I can't speak for the rest of my job, but this is what my company does.

[lexfd5]

The chains are there mainly to prevent theft. Steal enough caps and you'll have quite a bit of scrap metal to sell.

[BirkenVogt]

We don't remove chains. They have not been a problem here I suspect because we are rural and hydrants don't get too much abuse from cars and people slamming things into them and bending the chains.

But Vinnie brings up a good point, a pet peeve of mine., people who wrench the caps down when done with the hydrant.

I only put caps on hand tight, when they have been rusting away for a year you want to still be able to get them off without jumping on the wrench handle and injuring yourself. But make sure they are on hand "tight" because you don't want unused ones flying off and hitting someone in the kneecaps either.

Birken

[mcaldwell]

Ours are all gone.

PITA, and they hardly help anything. We drop an occasional cap in the snow, but at the end of the call, we have all the time in the world to mess with it.

[Weruj1]

as a rule we dont take them off ............also they are now replacing hydrants minus the steamer and going right to 5" Stortz thus eliminating the threaded adapter.

[Steeda83]

we hate them at my department(the school kids get paid during the summer months to go out and paint the hydrants..and they paint the WHOLE hydrant)..when we used to check our hydrants ourselves around this time of year we'd just whack the chains a few times to break up the paint..but now it's all handled by a private company, wish they'd do the same for shoveling them

another department in the area keeps a pair of bolt cutters in their hydrant bags everytime they come across chains and the rest is history..water department gets a little hissy

[FFFRED]

At my current department and my last dept we always cut the chains when we came across them. They don't prevent theft and once the hydrant is repainted...the chains get very gummy and hard to rotate with the cap.

FTM-PTB

[MEck51]

I have noticed several places that are now using "aircraft cable" to secure them to the hydrant. Seems like a good comprimise. Anyone have any experince with problems with these?

[ChicagoFF]

As others have said, if my company sees them when we do hydrants, we cut them off.

[ullrichk]

I tend to break the chains when I find them while hydrant testing. More accurately, they break of their own accord when I open the cap. If they're that easy when I'm testing, I can't imagine it being any hindrance to someone wanting some scrap metal.

[djgilbert32]

All of chains have been removed, reason being, they rust then won't spin freely causeing to bind up and make it hard to remove, they freeze up in winter time, making them difficult to remove at times, we're in a small community so we don't have much problems on theft of the caps.

[dragenrider]

Thank you all for your input and information. It looks like several excellent points of view have been voiced on the issue.

[kevmar28]

Hate to be the only opposing voice, but here goes. We ensure that all of our hydrants have their chains secured to the cap. When we do hydrant inspections, we make sure that the chains are operable to the point to where they will not hinder the removal of the cap. And, I know it's a freak accident kind of thing, but I have personally seen a steamer port under pressure fly off of the hydrant, striking a firefighter in the leg. (Yes, the cap was on properly, but the bushing failed). I am by no means making any statement as to whether anybody is right of wrong with what they do, I am just saying that this is what we do...

[HolleyFF241]

Our chains usually come off as we find them. I was always under the impression that the caps were chained to the hydrant so you didn't lose the caps (someone on this thread was talking about losing them in the snow). But to alleviate the problem of lost caps, there is a simple solution: PUT THEM IN THE HYDRANT BAG OR BOX!! If you're worried about caps blowing off of unused discharges on the hydrant, then gate all of the discharges on that hydrant before you turn on the water. IMO you should be doing that anyway in case you need those extra discharges later on, you wont have to shut down the hydrant to add onto it...

[kevmar28]

Our chains usually come off as we find them. I was always under the impression that the caps were chained to the hydrant so you didn't lose the caps (someone on this thread was talking about losing them in the snow). But to alleviate the problem of lost caps, there is a simple solution: PUT THEM IN THE HYDRANT BAG OR BOX!! If you're worried about caps blowing off of unused discharges on the hydrant, then gate all of the discharges on that hydrant before you turn on the water. IMO you should be doing that anyway in case you need those extra discharges later on, you wont have to shut down the hydrant to add onto it...

Thank you for your insightful input. Now re-read my post. THE BUSHINGS FAILED. The threaded piping flew right out with the cap. Cause? The bolts were sheared by someone who previously tightened the cap too much and sheared them off. If you could kindly explain to me how adding a gate valve to the end of it will prevent it from flying off, I am all ears. With regards to your opinion, keep it. I get all the water I need out of a LDH hose. If the fire needs more water than I can provide, then it comes from another engine, with another hydrant. That whole "don't put all your eggs in one basket" mentality. The city I protect is very good with regards to hydrant placement, so distance is never a concern.

[ChicagoFF]

Thank you for your insightful input. Now re-read my post. THE BUSHINGS FAILED. The threaded piping flew right out with the cap. Cause? The bolts were sheared by someone who previously tightened the cap too much and sheared them off. If you could kindly explain to me how adding a gate valve to the end of it will prevent it from flying off, I am all ears. With regards to your opinion, keep it. I get all the water I need out of a LDH hose. If the fire needs more water than I can provide, then it comes from another engine, with another hydrant. That whole "don't put all your eggs in one basket" mentality. The city I protect is very good with regards to hydrant placement, so distance is never a concern.

Wow, lighten up a little. Are you really getting that upset because someone misunderstood your point about hydrant chains? And as for you never gating another port on a hydrant - are you saying that there is never a need to feed two engines off of one hydrant??? Our policy is also for engines to get their own hydrant but we also gate them in case an emergency arises that requires that hydrant to supply two engines. Talk about putting all your eggs in your one working hydrant in the hopes that the others are not frozen or broken........... What if THE BUSHINGS FAILED on your second engines hydrant and the next two are frozen? A gate valve might not seem like such a bad idea then.

[HolleyFF241]

Thank you for your insightful input. Now re-read my post. THE BUSHINGS FAILED. The threaded piping flew right out with the cap. Cause? The bolts were sheared by someone who previously tightened the cap too much and sheared them off. If you could kindly explain to me how adding a gate valve to the end of it will prevent it from flying off, I am all ears. With regards to your opinion, keep it. I get all the water I need out of a LDH hose. If the fire needs more water than I can provide, then it comes from another engine, with another hydrant. That whole "don't put all your eggs in one basket" mentality. The city I protect is very good with regards to hydrant placement, so distance is never a concern.

My post was not a direct response to yours, I was simply answering the question asked by the topic starter as many others have on this thread. With regards to my opinion, if you arent interested in hearing other people's opinions you might be on the wrong kind of website.

[kevmar28]

I will gladly apologize to all parties for my post from yesterday, it was at the end of a long day and I should have probably thought a little more thoroughly before I put fingers to keyboard. ChicagoFF, you are right that it is a consideration. Normally, no, we will not attempt to feed two engines from the same hydrant. Having a second hydrant that is broken is always a concern, but here in central Florida, a frozen hydrant is not a very likely scenario. If you are speaking of temperature, at least. On an unrelated note, I would like to contact you (ChicagoFF) in relation to your department tactics with high-rise operations. Our city is getting ready to start construction on some six story townhomes. I know that this isn't normally considered a high-rise, but it is for us since it will be the highest buildings we have.