Why register? ...To Enhance Your Experience
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 39
  1. #1
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    21

    Default Use respirator other than SCBA for overhaul?

    I am not a big fan of wearing SCBA for hours on end. The doggoned thing is heavy. However, I realize that during overhaul there is still a lot of nasty stuff in the air, so we should be wearing breathing protection...

    Does anybody wear respirators other than SCBA for overhaul, for example a half-piece respirator with organic vapor and HEPA cartridges? I am thinking this should cover just about every toxin. The only difference between overhaul and the fire itself is the heat, right? And by then the heat is gone, so we don't have to have cool air from the SCBA.

    I sure would rather wear a light little respirator, even with the bulky cartridges, and goggles, than that SCBA while we're pulling down the ceiling.

    What is everyone's experience?


  2. #2
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Nov 1999
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    1,017

    Default

    In order to wear half or full face piece air purifying respirators (APR) in any atmosphere you must meet several conditions:

    1) It is part of your written respiratory protection plan, which includes details of when the APR's are acceptable.

    2) Fit testing is done with the respirator.

    3) The use of an APR is limited to atmospheres with O2 above 19.5%, known concentration of a known product and the concentraion of the is within the limits for APR use (consult the NIOSH Pocket Guide), and the atmosphere is non-IDLH.

    There are many toxins present during overhaul and unless you are conducting detailed analysis of the air after a fire, you have no idea what is present. A four-gas meter is worthless for making this determination after a fire. There has been much written lately about hydrogen cyanide exposure during and after structure fires. An organic vapor cartridge will not absorb hydrogen cyanide as it is not an organic compound.

    Firehouse.com article on cyanide poisoning

    I would stay with the SCBA's.
    Last edited by KenNFD1219; 09-30-2006 at 08:47 PM.
    -------------------
    "The most mediocre man or woman can suddenly seem dynamic, forceful, and decisive if he or she is mean enough." from "Crazy Bosses"
    -----------------------------------------------
    Genius has its limits, but stupidity is boundless.

  3. #3
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    9,649

    Default

    SCBA are heavy? Please. The new SCBA's whether 1/2 hour 4500 or 1/2 hour 2216 weigh less than 20 pounds. This down from about 40 pounds when I started with crappy face pieces, horrible, stiff, nylon straps, and STEEL 1800 psi bottles.

    Okay now on to your question about another style of respirators. Not a good idea. You probably don't remember canister masks, but I remember my dad's FD having them and the biggest problem with any filter type mask is there is ZERO protection against carbon monoxide. So unless you are going to constantly monitor the air, wear your SCBA. I am of the mind that a filter mask offers a flase sense of security.

    FyredUp

  4. #4
    MembersZone Subscriber Halligan84's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 1999
    Location
    Blackwood NJ, USA
    Posts
    816

    Default

    Aside from all the very valid reasons for not wearing the filter mask already mentioned, breathing is ALOT harder in a filter when doing strenuous work. You have to suck every breath through whatever array of filters you have as opposed to having positive flow to your facepiece

  5. #5
    Forum Member fireman4949's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Tallahassee, Florida
    Posts
    2,323

    Default

    All of the excellent reasons above NOT to wear a respirator aside, who is going to pay for the new replacement filters after each use?

    Wear your SCBA!




    Kevin
    Fire Lieutenant/E.M.T.
    IAFF Local 2339
    K of C 4th Degree
    "LEATHER FOREVER"
    Member I.A.C.O.J.
    http://www.tfdfire.com/
    "Fir na tine"

  6. #6
    Fir Na Tine LuckyThirteen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Sumter, SC
    Posts
    222

    Default

    First to Halligan, I love your avatar dude.

    To echo his sentiments, its much easier to breath through the SCBA. Anyone who is (or has been) in the military, like myself, and has done a few exercises in chem gear can tell you that its very hard to do strenuous work while trying to suck air through a filter.

    Since going through training to be a vollie in my off time, I can tell you I'd gladly carry the extra weight (which really isn't that much) than have to suck air through a filter. Been there, done that, returned the t-shirt. This is in addition to the reasons such as carbon monoxide already stated in other posts.
    Tom Warshaw
    Station 13 (Bethel)
    Sumter Fire Department

    "Scientists believe that the world is composed mainly of hydrogen because in their opinion, it is the most abundant element. I however, feel the earth is composed mainly of stupidity, because it is more abundant than hydrogen." - Frank Zappa

    September 11, 2001. We Must Never Forget.

    In memory of Thomas Sabella, L-13, FDNY


    All opinions stated are my own and do not reflect the opinions of my department or any organization I may belong to.

  7. #7
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    21

    Smile excellent input

    Thanks everyone for the excellent responses. I'll wear the SCBA. Our firehouse still has steel bottles and they are a little on the heavy side - but you have more than convinced me. What a great site, so helpful.

  8. #8
    Forum Member Chauffeur6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Metro NY
    Posts
    613

    Default

    While I completely agree with the majority that we should stick to wearing SCBA during overhaul, I will also say this: Wearing a filter mask is better than wearing NOTHING, false sense of security aside. It's still going to filter some of the junk, whereas wearing nothing offers ZERO protection. While I would hope that depts in today's day and age are mandating, training and enforcing the use of SCBA during overhaul, realistically I know there are still many firefighters who yank the pack off as soon as the fire is out.

  9. #9
    Forum Member Steeda83's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Little Rhody
    Posts
    226

    Default

    the theory is a good one but as many of the posters stated it wont cover all the bases so just stick with the scba..although saying that modern air packs are down to 20lbs is a little over exagerated although the weight has gone down and the way it is distributed has been greatly improved..im 99.9% sure that my department's SCOTT NxG2s are still at about 29lbs

  10. #10
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    9,649

    Default

    My volly FD has Sott AP-50's with 2216 Carbon Fiber bottles and the weight of these SCBA is 11 pounds for the back pak, 9.4 pounds for the botle and lets say 1 pound for the face piece, so okay, around 22 pounds.

    Yours is NxG2 and depending on the bottle: 2216 Carbon Fiber weighs 9.4 pounds, 4500 Carbom Fiber 30 minute 9.4 pounds, 45 minute 13.6 pounds, and 1 hour 16.6 pounds. I couldn't find a weight for the NxG2 bare pak frame but let's assume it weighs the same as the AP-50 so if we put a 2216 or 4500 thirty minute bottle on it and add 1 pound for the mask it weighs roughly 22 pounds, with a 45 minute bottle and mask it would weigh roughly 26 pounds and with the 1 hour bottle weighs roughly 28 pounds. So I guess if you are using 45 minute or one hour bottles you are close to 29 pounds.

    When I started we had Scott Pak Ones that weighed in the neighborhood of 40 pounds. 1800 psi steel cylinders. What a treat that was!! I'll take the lightweight aspect of a 1/2 hour Carbon Fiber bottle and my 22 pound SCBA, thank you very much.

    FyredUp

  11. #11
    Forum Member MemphisE34a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Memphis, TN - USA
    Posts
    2,446

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chauffer6
    ......realistically I know there are still many firefighters who yank the pack off as soon as the fire is out.
    Honestly, thats what we do.
    Robert Kramer
    cell #901-494-9437

    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

  12. #12
    Forum Member VinnieB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    On the couch in my skivvies
    Posts
    2,316

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a
    Honestly, thats what we do.
    Ditto......
    IACOJ Member

  13. #13
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    2,503

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a
    Honestly, thats what we do.
    Same here........
    I am a complacent liability to the fire service

  14. #14
    the 4-1-4 Jasper 45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    ...A great place, on a Great Lake
    Posts
    2,783

    Default

    I know there are still many firefighters who yank the pack off as soon as the fire is out.
    Honestly, thats what we do.
    Same here........



    VIOLATORS !! ... GET THE VIOLATORS !!!


    Sorry, that's my favorite quote for the 1994 movie 'PCU', which incidentally was Ari Gold's (of Entourage fame) first big movie.

  15. #15
    Forum Member Chauffeur6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Metro NY
    Posts
    613

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chauffer6
    realistically I know there are still many firefighters who yank the pack off as soon as the fire is out.
    Guilty

    Oops, did I just quote and agree with myself? Yes...yes I did, because that's how I know it goes on all the time. So like I said, even wearing one of those cheap painter's masks you can keep in your pocket is better than wearing nothing. At least it'll keep some of the particulate (fiberglass insulation, sheetrock dust, etc) out of your lungs.

  16. #16
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    735

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoFF
    Same here........

    Same here........
    Just another one of the 99%ers looking up.

  17. #17
    Forum Member Steeda83's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Little Rhody
    Posts
    226

    Default

    us too, and probably most of the state(Rhode Island) until a Firefighter named Kenny Baker from the city of providence gave us all a wake up call, maybe some of you read the cyanide case on firehouse

  18. #18
    Forum Member Res343cue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Your 1st due.
    Posts
    1,651

    Default

    Guilty.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleMan
    Why? Because we are firemen. We are decent human beings. We would be compelled by the overwhelming impulse to save an innocent child from a tragic, painful death because in the end, we are MEN.

    I A C O J
    FTM-PTB


    Honorary Disclaimer: While I am a manufacturer representative, I am not here to sell my product. Any advice or knowledge shared is for informational purposes only. I do not use Firehouse.Com for promotional purposes.

  19. #19
    Forum Member fireman4949's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Tallahassee, Florida
    Posts
    2,323

    Default

    I respectfully invoke my rights under the Fifth Amendment, and refrain from answering...Err, stating...Err, telling...Oh, what the hell! I'm guilty too!
    Fire Lieutenant/E.M.T.
    IAFF Local 2339
    K of C 4th Degree
    "LEATHER FOREVER"
    Member I.A.C.O.J.
    http://www.tfdfire.com/
    "Fir na tine"

  20. #20
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    37

    Default

    I used to...but then I decided I'd like to live to, and enjoy retirement. Black boogers are overrated.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Scba Woes...input Please!!!
    By o2cr125mx in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 09-06-2006, 12:02 PM
  2. SOP's for Volunteer FD
    By rumlfire in forum Volunteer Forum
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 08-01-2006, 10:35 PM
  3. Another for what were they thinking file.
    By stm4710 in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 65
    Last Post: 08-15-2005, 06:30 PM
  4. Civilian Fire Fatalities
    By DCFF in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 38
    Last Post: 02-08-2002, 08:18 AM
  5. Thermal Imaging SOG's
    By wtfd92 in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 06-27-2001, 08:41 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts