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Thread: Grant reduced

  1. #1
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    Question Grant reduced

    I received an e-mail from DHS on 10-4-06 informing me that they were reducing my ammount by $19,138 is this standard practice? My figures were quotes from dealers. Don't get me wrong I'm very happy to get what we can, but I really felt we needed what I applied for.

    Previous: 13 SCBA w/ spare cylinders and mask @ $67,938
    Now: 10 SCBA @ $50,000

    Previous: Washer/ extractor @ $10,200
    Now: $9,000

    Prev. Total $132,809
    Now $113,671


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    Forum Member RES81CUE's Avatar
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    My grant was also reduced to the prices they were willing to fund. And like yourself I thought my prices were reasonable. But since receiving word yesterday I have already received some better prices from my dealers.

    One thought on the SCBA reduction could possible be the apparatus seat numbers will only equal 10 SCBA's and not the 13 requested. again this is just a thought I dont know your departments specifics.

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    It is not unusual for the AFG to reduce funding requests if they believe it to be excessive or exceeds their (unwritten) thresholds.

    The reduction in the number of SCBA may be from the fact that you did not prove there were 13 riding positions or did not adequately justify the additional for ex. chief's or safety officer's vehicle.

    If you believe their reduction is in error, you can contact the FPS to explain the situation and see if they will make a change. It has been down in the past and been successful.

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    One bugle I beleive we were thinking and typeing the same thoughts...
    Last edited by RES81CUE; 10-05-2006 at 11:44 AM. Reason: Typo

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    "like minds think alike"

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    It happens, and it may (or may not) be negotiable. If i understand correctly, most project areas have a per unit value built into the software system (i.e. $1,200 for bunker pants/coat, $2,000 for head to toe turnout, etc). Human review may allow some fluctuation IF the quantities/values were addressed in the narrative.

    SCBA is limited to one per seating position on apparatus. If you have 10 seating positions and routinely pack up 12 firefighters AND documented that in your narrative, you may (or may not) be successful in requesting reconsideration. The $5,000 per pack/mask/spare is probably not going to be a negotiable figure.

    I don't have a clue on the washer cap. If you feel justified, respond with why, and it's helpful to attach a copy of your narrative with the justifications highlighted for them to find easily. Good luck.

    Congrats on the award though!!

    earl

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    Just so we're clear, SCBA is limited to 1 per seat on apparatus, or in the case of 2-3 seat apparatus they allow 4 per pumper/rescue/aerial to meet NFPA & OSHA minimal staffing requirements for initial attack operations.

    The unpublished limits on each item are there to avoid price gouging or vendors to bid the maximum amount just because it's there. If comparable equipment can be purchased for less than requested then the award amount is reduced. In my travels I've seen PPE Washers & Dryers for anywhere from $3k-5k each. In using different ones they all seemed to clean well as far as my eyes could see, and they all state compliance with NFPA PPE care standards. Most of the pricing varies because of the sizes of the units, i.e. whether or not they can wash a complete set or not. I think 55lbs is what will handle a full set of turnouts. Anywho, obviously just like cars some have more gold plating than others. So the pricing limits while not always getting us what we wanted in the first place, they do give us enough to get the job done.

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    Oh, and if 10 SCBA will put you in a position of being short of NFPA requirements you can still appeal even after accepting the reduction. Just have to have your ducks in a row to prove that. They can't award you a project that will keep you short of NFPA just like you can't apply for one.

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    Washers are interesting. a 35# machine will do 2 sets of modern turnouts. Unlike home appliiances, most do not have adjustable load sizes and SHOULD NOT be underloaded. We can wash 1.5 to 2 sets of bunkers at a time in ours. Had we gone with a 60# machine, we'd have had to been 3.5 to 4 sets at a time. In a 22 member dept with limited backup gear, it's better to have 2 sets drying than 4. Could get in a bind when the calls go back to back.

    earl

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    Post Washer ??? for Earl

    Just wondering what brand of washer you went with? Looks like we are going to purchasing one this year. Upgrading from our old standard household model!! All I want to do is be able to 2 sets of gear maybe three. Don't need anything fancy. Let me know if you need my email or if your going to post it here. Thanks

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    We are looking at the UniMat 18. 18lbs gear washer.

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    We did a UniMac 30 (30# capacity). The 35# model had a higher spin speed, but was not recommended by the salesperson because the Aramid fibers could break down faster with the higher speed.

    Milnor is a fine choice too, but in our case it was long time reputable dealer 30 minutes away versus 3 hours away. Salesman was knowledgable in fire gear, the fibers involved and how a vollie dept works (not having shift rotations, etc.). I'd have never thought about underfilling a machine being an issue, but with the spin cycles i guess it can cause imbalance that will wear the bearings very quickly.

    Being realistic about how many sets you will wash at a time and having good support should be important factors in your decision.
    earl

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenacres2
    We did a UniMac 30 (30# capacity). The 35# model had a higher spin speed, but was not recommended by the salesperson because the Aramid fibers could break down faster with the higher speed.

    Milnor is a fine choice too, but in our case it was long time reputable dealer 30 minutes away versus 3 hours away. Salesman was knowledgable in fire gear, the fibers involved and how a vollie dept works (not having shift rotations, etc.). I'd have never thought about underfilling a machine being an issue, but with the spin cycles i guess it can cause imbalance that will wear the bearings very quickly.

    Being realistic about how many sets you will wash at a time and having good support should be important factors in your decision.
    earl
    You know I wondered where the Maytag Repair guy had retired to? I guess we now know he has resurrected himself as greenacres2! LOL!
    Kurt Bradley
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    We have standard 2 man cabs, usually there is only one person driving a piece of apparatus, other members are going directly to the scene. I based 13 on how many are mounted in pockets now. 4 each in 2 pumpers, 2 on tanker, 2 on brush/rescue truck, 1 on first responder jeep.

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    1st responder was dropped because small fleet vehicles are normally left out of the count for SCBA on everyone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BC79er
    1st responder was dropped because small fleet vehicles are normally left out of the count for SCBA on everyone.
    Appears they took out the brush truck too. Unless it is a brush/quick attack I never have counted them either.
    Kurt Bradley
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    Question questioning a reduction

    Has anyone ever questioned the FEDs when they recieved notice of a reduction???

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    Plenty of times. You should always question the reduction when they ask you about one. If there is no merit to it, then it can be reversed. Done it several times. Sometimes it is only a partial restoration, and sometimes there is no money put back. It all depends on the angle of the argument. It's usually only up for discussion when quantities are changed or something is removed. The price ceilings are what they are, with very few exceptions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dfd140
    We have standard 2 man cabs, usually there is only one person driving a piece of apparatus, other members are going directly to the scene. I based 13 on how many are mounted in pockets now. 4 each in 2 pumpers, 2 on tanker, 2 on brush/rescue truck, 1 on first responder jeep.
    My math is:
    4 for pumper 1 (1720/1710 initial attack)
    2 for pumper 2 (seating positions)
    2 for tanker (seating positions)
    2 for brush truck (seating positions)
    0 for the jeep (see Brian's post)
    -----
    10 positions

    earl

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    Every pumper can be an initial attack pumper, which is why they let all pumper go with a minimum of 4 regardless of seats. The only ones where the number of seats really sticks is tankers, quick attacks, & light rescues. So you might have a chance at getting 2 back if the brush/rescue is used more as rescue than brush. It's worth asking. Worst thing they can say is no.

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