1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by PattyV
    Yes people might use whatever weapon they can get their hands on; guns are the most effective and give the victims the least chance to fight back. With a gun you dont have time to duck if the killer decides to shoot. He can kill you before you have realised that he pulled the trigger. With a knife the victim can at least fight back, if there is more than one victim the attacker can be overpowered.
    We just had a home invasion here in Memphis where the resident fought with her attacker,got his gun away and shot him to death and sent his buddies running for their lives.
    I guess that gives credence to the hoplophobes saying that you'll only get your gun taken from you and used against you.
    When I lived in Paducah Ky,I knew enough of the players involved with the Heath Middle School shooting that I might qualify as a knowledgeable person.That would require a seperate thread in itself to discuss.
    Just because someone has easy access to firearms doesn't mean that they will automatically shoot someone.
    And just because someone has no access to firearms, doesn't mean that they can't find a way to get one legally or otherwise or devise a way to kill thousands without even firing a shot(Sept 11,2001 comes to mind).
    A firearm is an inanimate object and cannot control the mind of its user.I've been a gun owner 22 years and none of my firearms have directed my actions.If I want to go hunting,I go hunting.If I want to go punch holes in paper targets,I go to the local range.
    And should the need to defend myself with a firearm,well,I've done that before without firing a shot and been arrested for doing so because the DA wanted to be the first kid on his block to get a conviction of a Bill that wasn't even signed into an Act yet.
    There is no firearm made that decides what its user does nor does the capability to devine whether an action is legal or not exist in the machinery.
    The reason for excessive crime rates lies in a judicial system that doesn't punish criminal action,not the fact that Free people are able to exercise their Right to keep and bear arms if they so choose.

  2. #52
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    I see where you are coming from Doug, but there is a difference between the September 11th hijackers and your upset postman. A lot of the killings you guys have seem to be spur of the moment. I know a lot of them are deliberately planned and you cant stop these men from carrying them out by restricting guns. A lot of them however might never have happened if the perpetraitor did not have ready access to a gun. The thought wouldnt go from 'I wish I had a gun to show them' to 'Where is my gun? I'll show them!'

    We just had a home invasion here in Memphis where the resident fought with her attacker,got his gun away and shot him to death
    As long as they are not physically attacking you then I dont see why you need to put your life at risk by trying to overpower them. Its just valuables that can be replaced. If they were trying to attack or rape her then I fully understand and congradulate her.
    "There are only two things that i know are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And im not so sure about the former."

    For all the life of me, i cant see a firefighter going to hell. At least not for very long. We would end up putting out all the fires and annoying the devil too much.

  3. #53
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    I think one of the biggest factors in all of this is society. American society is completely different from any other society on Earth. Today's American society is completley different from what it was 10 years ago. In our society today we have absolved the individual of almost all responsibility for his or her actions. Everything that happens now adays is somebody else's fault. Their mommy or daddy, or lack of money, abuse, the media, comic books, or video games, the list can go on and on. Part of America's problem is that we are a young country compared to the rest of the world add that to starting out as a republic that prides itself on personal freedom and it equal we are what we are. We are the worlds teenager and as such we are still sorting things out. European countries like Great Britian (this includes Canada and Australia) are the old men on the block, as society's go, and are based on a Monarachy style government that has limited personal freedom throughout their entire history.

    US crime statistics cannot be compared to any other country in the world. There are just too many variables to make it an apples to apples comparison. One factor that many gun control advocates choose to ignore or forget about is the primary reason the Second Amendment was added to the US Constitution was best expressed in another famous document.

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
    The reality of the situation is that despite a few isolated incidents that while absouletly despicable and deplorable the US is a fairly civil nation. To those that think otherwise here are a few examples; the IRA, Uguanda (mass genocide), radical Islam (mass murder, sponsored terrorism), Somalia, the former Czech Republic, Germany 1939-1944, Japan 1935-1945, most South American countries, the former USSR, and others. That's just in the 20th century. Antiquity provides enough examples of atrocities and societial ills that make any of our problems seem like spilt milk.

  4. #54
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    European countries like Great Britian (this includes Canada and Australia)
    I agree with you on most of your points but this one is a little hard for me to swallow. Australia has only had 105 years to form its identity. America used to be a British colony as well. Granted we were given some guidance in the early years and I am assuming that is what you are talking about.
    "There are only two things that i know are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And im not so sure about the former."

    For all the life of me, i cant see a firefighter going to hell. At least not for very long. We would end up putting out all the fires and annoying the devil too much.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlcooke3
    One factor that many gun control advocates choose to ignore or forget about is the primary reason the Second Amendment was added to the US Constitution was best expressed in another famous document.
    Quite true. And quite the reason why many governments do not like an armed populace. Hence my mentioning of Naziism, Socialism, Communism, Fascism, and Totalitarianism earlier (something completely ignored by those calling for me to give up my rights and freedoms.)

    Liberty is only achieved when a government (elected or otherwise) fears its citizens.


    And Patty, so when someone breaks into my house, I should allow them to come into by bedroom, bound and gag me and my wife, and then let them take things from me?

    I will not - let me say that again - I WILL NOT surrender my rights, liberty, or freedom to another man. You break into my house, while I am home, I can only assume that you intend to do the occupants of my domicile harm. And I will not sit idly by and allow that to happen. I will not give a threat a chance to get the upper hand on me. I will not stop them and ask what their intents are. They MAY get a verbal warning, but they better not count on it. I will not sit idly by and become a victim when I have the means to prevent it.

    For this very reason, even the flaming liberal Commonwealth of Massachusetts considers breaking and entering during the daylight hours and breaking and entering in the night hours to be two different crimes with two different severities of punishment and charges. Simply because a domicile is EXPECTED to be occupied at night and therefore harm to the occupiers is expected to occur. I think that should be altered given modern society's different working schedule nowadays though.

    The do not fight back crowd blows my mind. "Become a victim" "Let them do what they want" HELL NO! Do not embolden them. Last year in Great Britain a farmer was imprisoned for shooting two intruders with his LEGALLY OWNED weapon when they broke INTO his house. He was even sued if I recall correctly.

    I will not subvert my own security to the government - any government at any level - that time and time again has shown its failures and inabilities to protect the individual citizen. It is up to the individual citizen to prepare for things themselves, and to defend/protect themselves and their property or lives.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

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  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by PattyV
    I agree with you on most of your points but this one is a little hard for me to swallow. Australia has only had 105 years to form its identity. America used to be a British colony as well. Granted we were given some guidance in the early years and I am assuming that is what you are talking about.
    Ah, but the primary difference is that America violently broke from England and became, for lack of a better term, a dumping ground for the rest of the World. Australia on the hand was a primarly settled by the British with a smattering of other cultures. Australians brought with them British ideals and built upon them. That's why Australia and Great Britian's ideals have coencided (hope that's spelled right).

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    [QUOTE=DaSharkie]Quite true. And quite the reason why many governments do not like an armed populace. Hence my mentioning of Naziism, Socialism, Communism, Fascism, and Totalitarianism earlier (something completely ignored by those calling for me to give up my rights and freedoms.)

    Liberty is only achieved when a government (elected or otherwise) fears its citizens.QUOTE]
    Your absouletly correct, when a government stops fearing its citizens it begins to take away the rights of the individual for the "good of society". What it is really doing is taking away the rights of the individual for the good of the government.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlcooke3
    Your absouletly correct, when a government stops fearing its citizens it begins to take away the rights of the individual for the "good of society". What it is really doing is taking away the rights of the individual for the good of the government.
    Quite true. I just wish people would realize this before they call for me to give up my rights.

    Won't happen, but I will fight it tooth and nail and call out the hypocracy every time I see it.

    And I am still waiting to hear what rights those telling em to give mine will surrender in return.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie
    And I am still waiting to hear what rights those telling em to give mine will surrender in return.
    None, for they have all ready have given up theirs for the "greater good" and are among the rightous few you shall show us heathens the true way to happiness and a perfect society.

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    Ah, but the primary difference is that America violently broke from England and became, for lack of a better term, a dumping ground for the rest of the World. Australia on the hand was a primarly settled by the British with a smattering of other cultures. Australians brought with them British ideals and built upon them.

    Culture in Aussi is what makes yogurt nice to eat.

    oooooohhhhh its the twighlight zone shimy and flashback to the past.

    Somewhere in English Parliament many moons ago....

    "Hey boss, we just found this really big land down south, its bloody huge."

    "Ok junior, what does this mean to us"

    "Wellllll Boss, we can ship our criminals down there for a 100 years and never fill the place."


    "Get on to it Junior, since America beat us, we are running out of options."





    (jokes, just jokes)
    Psychiatrists state 1 in 4 people has a mental illness.
    Look at three of your friends, if they are ok, your it.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlcooke3
    None, for they have all ready have given up theirs for the "greater good" and are among the rightous few you shall show us heathens the true way to happiness and a perfect society.
    A perfect society? Yeah, Socialism is working out really well for many countries in Europe isn't it?

    Namely the Frogs. But other Socialist regimes are having HUGE financial issues, high unemployment, escalating crime, difficulty with.......um.....shall we just say "immigrants"?, huge difficulty with funding their socialized federal healthcare systems..........

    Our system is not perfect by any stretch, but don't sit here and tell me that it works when it doesn't.

    -Legal Disclaimer- I understand your original tone of yoru post. I was just expounding upon it. Using the right to free speech and all that has yet to be taken away from me (totally) in this country like it has in so many Socialist "Eutopias."
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingKiwi
    Culture in Aussi is what makes yogurt nice to eat.

    oooooohhhhh its the twighlight zone shimy and flashback to the past.

    Somewhere in English Parliament many moons ago....

    "Hey boss, we just found this really big land down south, its bloody huge."

    "Ok junior, what does this mean to us"

    "Wellllll Boss, we can ship our criminals down there for a 100 years and never fill the place."


    "Get on to it Junior, since America beat us, we are running out of options."





    (jokes, just jokes)
    LOL Now that's funny.

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