1. #1
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    1

    Default Sutphen Tower info?

    Small combination dept seeking info/experiences with Sutphen 70+ tower?....how quick is set up?....is there any peticular braking problems with it having ......is it possible to damage the vehicle with the boom......can one spec out a diff bottom of the platform to access a roof easier? thanks in advance.......

  2. #2
    Forum Member
    Rescue101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Bridgton,Me USA
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    Your best bet is contact Sutphen direct.They can answer your questions and refer you to your nearest user.In answer to the boom,it has warning devices which will warn you and "feather"the hydraulics when you approach a collision point with say the truck cab.However if you really want to hit the cab after you've been warned not to the system WILL allow you to do so.You will find the folks at Sutphen very responsive to questions at least our Rep is. T.C.

  3. #3
    Forum Member
    efd281's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    El Dorado, Kansas
    Posts
    218

    Default Sutphen

    I have personnally set up a single axle Sutphen aerial in under 15 sec. So, yes they are very fast to set up. The single axle line has been a good seller and so I don't believe that the brakes have been an issue or you would have seen a discussion here about it. There are no proximity alarms on any of the single axle Sutphen aerials. The alarms are on the tandem axle trucks. Its a cost thing!! There are no different bottoms available for the platform due to the need to mount the bucket from the ground. The SPH 100 it the only Supthen aerial that has a flat bottom and your get in it much like you do any other mid-mount.
    I have but one ambition in life and that is to become a firefighter.

  4. #4
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    10

    Default 2004 70' Sutphen

    Our prior chief hastily bought a 2004 70í Sutphen demo without much consideration to our needs or terrain. Our 1990 85í Sutphen had been a descent truck so it seemed like a good idea to him. Some problems we had are mechanical while others are inherent in the design. The mechanical problems may be due the abuse it took on the show circuit. For example, there are two solenoids in a plastic black box in the bucket that control the leveling. They have malfunctioned on two occasions so the bucket cannot be leveled. You can still level manually but the bucket swings like a ferris wheel car. The stainless steel tube in the hose bed that holds the boom snapped and Sutphen supplied a new one at no charge. The pins that hold the compartment door latches have broken and appear to be a cheap design. We did spend $5,000 on rear brakes because a rear drum shattered. Iím not sure if that is a problem common to all fire trucks or because we have a a a lot of steep grades. We have had the rear brakes smoking on back-to-back runs. The main problem for us is that the jacks are not designed for hills. We set one jack on a curb and the other in the street and broke the curb side jack. It could not be retracted. Sutphen said the jacks must be kept on the same level. Their answer was move the truck to even ground. Not really an option a lot of times. You can also forget about shortjacking because it wonít. Our old Sutphen took longer to set up but you set up on a steep hill. Another major complaint among the firefighters is the boom bouncing. Let go of the controls too fast and it feels like you will be thrown out. Also, the truck is nearly 42í long. We just ordered a tandem axle rear mount 105í straight ladder truck that is 42í. Iím not aware of all the issues or how Sutphen has responded but I do know that our current chief told them not to bid on our new truck. I think it would make a good pumper if we could lose the boom. The cab is built well with plastic kept to a minimum. It will set up fast if you can set it up. Remember you have one button to lower and one to raise the jacks. If that doesnít work nothing else can be done. We would prefer a truck that takes longer to set up as long as we could eventually set it up. Electronics, pump, and the other major items have been fine. If your town is flat with wide streets it may be what you looking for.

  5. #5
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Nov 1999
    Location
    VERMONT
    Posts
    105

    Default Sutphen 70 PLUS

    All very good questions (tonythefireman)!

    I personally went through this very same excercise 2+ years ago when purchasing our Dept. first Aerial Unit.

    First let me tell you that Sutphen makes a very good Custom Product and from my limited dealings they seemed like a solid product support Company.

    Cabs are built like a Tank (although shorter on interior room than most). For your application I would stress the need for BIG HP with a true Jake Brake for stopping preformance. The 70+ is a heavy unit with there Stainless Steel Bodies. I would also stress the need to limit the water carrying capacity of this truck to less than 400 gallons. A Dept close to us which we visited and used their truck did have many of the same hills. I would also INSIST on a Front Axle Brake Lock for Aerial Operations (it's a must on hilly locations).

    As for the setup it is fast; one thing we did not like was all jack operations occurs from the DS of the truck (thus we could not see what or who the Officer Side jack was crushing). Also short jacking is out of the question (depending if that is a concern).

    We also had a big concern with crushing the cab with the boom. The truck we tried had this happen to it in the heat of battle while working in some heavy smoke. The Dept. caught the cab roof corner and did some damage. Looks like it might have been a whole lot worse if not for a good operator! With a midmount unit this becomes a very valid concern as you are working around the Cab a majority of the time.

    As mention before; the Aerial preformance left a bit to be desired on this unit. The Ladder bounce was substaintial. Need a good operator in this unit all of the time. You can really bounce the hell out of this and scare yourself big time! Mounting the Bucket from the ground was tough as well. This particular truck had special underslug steps but they didn't help a whole lot (IMHO).

    My biggest concern with this truck was horizontial reach. We measured it out at 63 feet. IMHO that was a long way from the 75 that one would normally see on a Medium Duty Quint. Add in the fact that it's a Mid Mount and your lossing alot of ladder no matter how you operate.

    I will say that this unit did drive nicely and got around very very well. Alot less tail slap than I had imagined.

    With the SP70 Plus I have to say it all comes down to the application on this one. "What are you trying to do with it"? It is not a Truck Company Unit (by any means). I'm not even sure it's a true Quint; not enough big ladder. If you are replacing an Engine and need an cost effective way to get an elevated Master Stream or something similiar to a tele-squirt or boom with great rescue capabilities you might be on the right track.

    It's a good solid unit if you place it in the right application. Not sure there is anything out there to really compare this Unit to. It does a little of everything.

    Spec it RIGHT (focus on GVW) & Assign it the CORRECT job responsabilities and you maybe looking at the correct truck!!!

    BTW: We purchase a 75' Rear Mount Sidestacker (very happy to this point)

    Good Luck & Have Fun
    GB

  6. #6
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Northeast Coast
    Posts
    3,862

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 640SATFD
    Add in the fact that it's a Mid Mount and your lossing alot of ladder no matter how you operate.
    Please explain how you figure this? Given the choice of a mid-mount vs. a rear mount of the same rated height (how aerials are measured) a mid-mount has a greater scrub area. Basically you can touch more square footage due to this design than with a rear mount. This is based on the distance it takes to reach the ground off the side and the fact that midmounts usually have one more section than rearmounts which shortens the overall reatracted length. Side reach with any aerial is shorter than the rated height as the measure is from the ground to the given surface (bucket rail or tip of stick). So you can about subtract the height from the ground to the turntable from the rated height to get the side reach.

  7. #7
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    44

    Default

    THOUSE

    I am assuming that the Sutphen SP70 Aerial Platform you are discussing is located in Alton, IL. It is unfortunate that you and your members have experienced the issues you mention. I do know Sutphen has changed manufacturers that make the solenoids, an instance close to yours recently happend to me on a demo due to an electronic sensor. The door pins are from the same manufacturer that most apparatus builders buy. Hopefully your department met a quick response from service regarding this problem.

    To the best of my knowledge, your department was interested in purchasing what you ended up buying, a straight stick. Your department contacted me first which I refered directly to the appropriate dealer for your departmet. The issue at hand was the Sutphen 104' Aerial Ladder had an overall length that was much longer than the chief was looking for period. That's why Sutphen did not bid the tender.

    If your department was not taken care of or still have concerns, go to www.sutphen.com , go to the dealer section in Illinois and let me know, I have the other 96 counties in the state. Though I did sell Conoco Refinery their new Sutphen 110' Industrial Aerial that was delivered last week.

    Take Care,

    * An added note:Call Sutphen service regarding the boom bouncing 1-866-287-5549 It might be a simple adjustment.
    Last edited by edorolin; 10-09-2006 at 11:54 PM.

  8. #8
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    10

    Default Sutphen SP70

    Thanks for your reply. It is the Alton truck. Iím certainly not blaming Sutphen for the jacks and reach that often do not work for us. It is the responsibility of the fire department and not the company to spec the truck that will work in your town. The Sutphen operates as designed and has worked at every fire as far as I know. However, it must have the even terrain to set up. It can be on a slope but not an uneven slope. I did not tell the story about how we got it because I was just trying to answer his jack and set up question. For your knowledge, we bought that demo when the former chief (now retired) was under pressure to cut overtime costs. He did so by shutting down the truck company (1990 85í Sutphen) and combining its crew with an engine company. The chief wanted a shorter aerial truck so it could use it primarily as a pumper. The 104í would have been too long. It was more important to run car fires and narrow streets than to have a full size aerial. We could still man the 85í Sutphen if needed. The union opposed all these moves. Since many of the firefighters and the chief werenít on speaking terms, no one knew anything about the truck until it was delivered. The plan fell apart when the frame on 85í Sutphen delaminated from front to rear and could not be certified. All of the supports for the front and rear jacks had rusted out as well. The test company told us to take it out of service immediately. Still in need of a large aerial, it was returned to the factory to see about a refurb. Sutphen wanted a fortune to fix it so it was scrapped for $18,000. We could almost buy a new aerial for the price Sutphen wanted to do a refurb. So thatís what we did. This time, however, we have designed a truck built to our needs with a lot of member input. The 1990 Sutphen worked flawlessly at a number of large fires for 15 years as well as the daily running of going to the store, building inspections, etc. The minor problems on the new unit would not stop me from buying another. I recently called a number of FD maintenance shops and chiefs around the country researching our new truck. I can tell you there are a couple of mfgs that have serious reliability problems. Sutphen is not one of them.

  9. #9
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    257

    Default New Stick

    thouse2,

    Not to digress too much, but would you care to share the details on your new ladder? I heard it is a Smeal. Seems like Smeal is making a name for themselves around here (Granite City, Troy, Hazelwood, and of course St. Louis)

    I really do not see the need for another ladder in Alton, but that is my opinion. Godfrey has a 100' ladder tower available if needed. I would like to see more cooperation between the departments. MABAS 35 is lightyears behind the divisions to the north.

    BTW The Conoco Phillips Sutphen is a monster. Almost a million dollars, oh and tack on sales tax too!

  10. #10
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    10

    Default Sutphen 70'

    GFPD2005
    We are getting a Smeal 105í ladder on a Spartan Gladiator chassis with the Xtreme duty interior. It has a 2000 gpm pump, deck gun, booster reel, cord reels, side hose bed instead of chute, and the standard options. The reliability of the 30 St. Louis quints was one consideration along with price. Smeal was low bid. Its hard to tell city hall we need $50, $80 or $100k more over low bid because the trucks in St Louis are not good enough for us. The call volume and wear and tear in the city far exceeds what we will ever experience. We also contacted about two dozen other large and medium sized departments in the U.S. and Canada. Most were repeat Smeal customers and had good things to say about service, overnight parts delivery, and dependability. Several had more ladders on order including the 125í model. St. Charles, MO also has a fairly new 100í Smeal platform on the same chassis. We were not bound to low bid but we had to be reasonable as well.

    In regards to what we need, Iíll leave it up to the administration to decide and leave my opinion out of it. I do know the 70í Sutphen could not reach a church steeple that was hit by lighting during the August storm that knocked out power to this area. Every department in this area had multiple fires. I doubt your aerial was available but I donít know. In a similar situation, one town in central Illinois had relied on a larger city for a ladder truck. When the tornado devastated the area none were available. The smaller town is now buying their own. I do agree mutual aid is good but you also must be able to provide for yourself. I have found that the area departments are more than willing to help when needed even though it may not be entirely formalized into auto aid, etc. I originally replied to help Tony with his jack question so I hope some more people will do the same. Stop in and see the truck when it comes.

  11. #11
    Forum Member
    Weruj1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    NW Ohio
    Posts
    7,857

    Default

    Ed ...............any pics on the new refinery Aerial ?>
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

  12. #12
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    257

    Default

    thouse,

    Sounds like AFD will be getting a very capable truck. It is always nice to have another ladder in the area. The Sutphen has its strengths as well. In retrospect, who knows how long we will have our ladder tower. I can envision Godfrey going to a 75ft stick next time based on our budget.

    Wouldnt mind testing for AFD next time around. Seems like things are on the upswing.

  13. #13
    Forum Member
    Bones42's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Pt. Beach, NJ
    Posts
    10,684

    Default

    how quick is set up?
    Based on the number of times they have dumped water on me from above while we are inside putting the fire out...too quick.

    2 Departments near me have Sutphens and I have asked members to jump in here and offer their comments.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  14. #14
    Forum Member
    Weruj1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    NW Ohio
    Posts
    7,857

    Default

    we have an older Sutphen ...............whats anyone want to know ?
    http://www.rossfordfire.com/791.html
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

  15. #15
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    44

    Default Sutphen SP70

    THOUSE

    Appreciate your reply, I do understand your situation an thanks for your professionalism in your posts. If you ever run into a problem you can always contact me.

    Be Safe !

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. any big city explorers
    By expvol in forum Fire Explorer & Jr. Firefighting
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 04-05-2004, 07:49 PM
  2. Tower Ladder which do you perfer?
    By Engine731RFD in forum Apparatus Innovation
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 02-11-2004, 01:12 AM
  3. World Of Fire Report: 09-11-01 Remembered
    By PaulBrown in forum World of Fire Daily Report
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-11-2003, 01:14 AM
  4. Training/Live burn tower
    By rwilliamspfd in forum Departments Helping Departments
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-10-2003, 12:22 PM
  5. Getting the info out on thermal imaging
    By TIMan in forum Thermal Imaging Cameras
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 11-30-2000, 09:35 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register