1. #1
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    Question North Korean Nuclear Test???

    Report: N. Korea appears to conduct nuke test
    South Korean official says nuclear test appears to have happened
    BREAKING NEWS
    Updated: 8 minutes ago

    SEOUL, South Korea - South Korean government officials said North Korea performed its first-ever nuclear weapons test Monday, the South’s Yonhap news agency reported.

    South Korean officials could not immediately confirm the report.

    South Korean President Roh Moo-hyun convened an urgent meeting of security advisers over the issue, Yonhap reported.

    The North said last week it would conduct a nuclear test as part of its deterrent against a possible U.S. invasion.

    The director of South Korea’s monitoring center that is watching for a test with sound and seismic detectors declined to immediately comment on the report. The U.S. Geological Survey said it had detected no seismic activity in North Korea, although it was not clear whether a blast would be strong enough for its sensors.

    Is this part of a psychological war or did it really happen??? Too soon to find out at this time 11:11PM EST.
    Tom

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    This could get ugly if it did in fact happen.
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    Its hard to say. Even if its confirmed that they did test a nuke, its hard to tell whether the north has any intentions of using one or if it is just their tradtional tactics of intimidation and saber rattling. Kim Jong Il is many things, but I would not assume to think he is that stupid if he thinks he could actually get away with using one. Then again, he just may be.

    Either way this is definitely cause for concern, whether from DPRK itself or from a rouge nation or terrorist organization that might pay the right price for such a weapon.

    While I won't assume the worst here (as there have been plenty of incidents in Korea that would make butts pucker before), none the less I will say a small prayer for my brothers and sisters on the peninnsula.
    Last edited by LuckyThirteen; 10-09-2006 at 12:19 AM.
    Tom Warshaw
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    Still a scary thought that they have them and are willing to even test them in this day in age. The really bad thing is is if just ONE ever gets shot at someone, they will fire back, and so on and so forth till there is no one to fire back at........

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    If the North ever fired attacked anyone with a nuke, most likely, there wouldn't be much of a North Korea anymore. That is why I'm not too worried yet. I believe that KJI is all too aware of this.
    Tom Warshaw
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    "Scientists believe that the world is composed mainly of hydrogen because in their opinion, it is the most abundant element. I however, feel the earth is composed mainly of stupidity, because it is more abundant than hydrogen." - Frank Zappa

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    In memory of Thomas Sabella, L-13, FDNY


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    Kim Jong Il is an outright lunatic. And do not think that North Korea would be blown of the face of the world either. China is a HUGE ally of North Korea, and something that everyone is keenly aware of.

    The thing of it is, that the United States and the United Nations was STUPID enough to give this guy his nuclear capability back in the 1990s when that moron Jimmy Carter played international diplomat and gave them a nuclear reactor.

    While the United States is not necessarily currently capable of invading the North - Japan and South Korea are faced with the proposition of having to deal with this issue much as they did 56 years ago. Alone for a short bit.

    That being said, having known/worked with folks from the R.O.K. in the service - North Korea will have a hell of a time crossing the 38th parallel. But, they have a massive land army, and their nation's people are starved for the sake of the military's benefit. And they are brainwashed with their news access being very limited to what the state gives.

    There have been a few interesting documentaries on HBO and CBS about the life in North Korea, and it is downright scary.

    North Korea is broke. They trade with China. And that is about it. Their country lives, for the most part, without electricity and has no real source of income. They are not all that far out of the stone age so it won't take much to get them back there. But they are a resilient group of people, and have lived off of the land for so long that they will be a most hearty foe.

    Just don't lul yourself into a state of thinking that this would be a walk in the park. It very much has the potential to make Viet Nam and Iraq look like a playground scuffle.

    The Korean peninsula is one of the most heavily mined, guarded, and militarized places left on the planet. Many will die, and it will be a slugfest to the end - North Korea has nothing to lose. They have no resources, no money, no trade - all things that the South has. And few in the South remember the brutality of the first invasion from the North, and many of the younger generation in the South support being all cumbaya with the North. Just what Kim Jong Il wants.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie
    That being said, having known/worked with folks from the R.O.K. in the service - North Korea will have a hell of a time crossing the 38th parallel. But, they have a massive land army, and their nation's people are starved for the sake of the military's benefit. And they are brainwashed with their news access being very limited to what the state gives.
    If North invaded South, they might have a strong intitial push, but they'd have to move as quickly as they could to capatilize on it. If not, they'll stall at the banks of the Han River. The battle plan is to demolish all bridges (save a couple for evacuation) the moment the North crosses the border. Then they're vulnerable when they make any attempt to cross the river.

    And while the parallel is heavily mined, that's about it. The forces that are deployed along the paralell in the South are nothing more than a tripwire. If the north starts moving south, most of the forward forces would be pulling back, setting tank blockades as they moved. (Large blocks of concrete that are held up by smaller concrete pillers. The pillers are blown leaving a large slab to block the narrow roads. Trying to bypass said slabs would result in contact with tank destroying mines)

    Just don't lul yourself into a state of thinking that this would be a walk in the park. It very much has the potential to make Viet Nam and Iraq look like a playground scuffle.
    You hit the nail on the head. It would also make the Korean War look like a dust cloud. South Korea is a whole lot more built up now than it was in the 50s. Not to mention that the city of Seoul itself is much bigger. All those highrise apartments and commercial complexes would come tumbling to the ground under an attack. It would probably make for some of the worst urban fighting to date.

    And few in the South remember the brutality of the first invasion from the North, and many of the younger generation in the South support being all cumbaya with the North. Just what Kim Jong Il wants.
    It really is sad the way the younger generations of Koreans feel about the whole situation. The generation that remembers the war is all but disappearing and with them, the memory of the brutality that was the North. Having worked in a ROK military facility while I was stationed there, even many in the military (younger ones that is) feel that the North is just their misplaced brothers and that reunification will solve everything. How dissapointed they will be if it ever gets to that point.

    That being said, while I believe that the north could invade the south if they thought it prudent, I'm sticking to my guns that Il wouldn't be stupid enough to use a nuke. He is crazy and a sociopath, no doubt, but he's also one shrewed cookie.
    Last edited by LuckyThirteen; 10-09-2006 at 10:21 AM.
    Tom Warshaw
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    "Scientists believe that the world is composed mainly of hydrogen because in their opinion, it is the most abundant element. I however, feel the earth is composed mainly of stupidity, because it is more abundant than hydrogen." - Frank Zappa

    September 11, 2001. We Must Never Forget.

    In memory of Thomas Sabella, L-13, FDNY


    All opinions stated are my own and do not reflect the opinions of my department or any organization I may belong to.

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    North's test seen as failure for Korea policy China followed
    By Joseph Kahn
    Published: October 9, 2006


    BEIJING The North Korea nuclear test amounted to a major failure for China, which mounted one of its most extensive diplomatic efforts in years to find a negotiated solution to the North Korean nuclear crisis and to prevent the spread of nuclear weapons to the Korean peninsula.

    The Chinese expressed their anger in unusually strong terms, saying the test was "flagrant and brazen."

    Last week, the foreign ministry spokesman, Liu Jianchao, took the unusual step of publicly warning North Korea not to follow through with its planned test. Chinese leaders had also warned of "grave consequences" if the test was conducted.

    China and North Korea fought together against the United States and its allies during the Korean War and were ideological partners during the cold war. Today, China remains North Korea's most important source of food and oil.

    But China, which also has worked hard to keep good relations with the Bush administration, has tried to bring the United States and North Korea to the negotiating table. President Hu Jintao has met Kim Jong-iIl, the North Korean leader, several times, and the Chinese side tried to persuade the North Koreans to follow a strategy of peaceful opening that focused mainly on economic development, like the Chinese themselves did after Mao's death.

    The test will almost certainly force the Chinese to take a more assertive stance and to join the United States and regional powers into exerting more pressure on the North.

    It remains unclear what leverage China might be willing to use against the North. Beijing has long argued that along with denuclearizing the country it also intends to preserve peace and stability there, and Chinese leaders are likely to reject any proposals for military action.

    They may also seek to water down any sanctions to ensure that restrictions on the North's trade do not topple the government, an event China fears could set off an influx of refugees and a volatile political environment on its border.
    Tom

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    Default just an opinion

    I don't think that China is an ally of N. Korea, Vietnam or anybody else on its' borders. The whole thing is that China just does not want any U.S. military anywhere near the borders of China. Right now China is busy becoming a HUGE economic player in the world and they certainly don't want or need some idiot in N.Korea stirring up the pot and their chances to flex that economic power.

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    Time to send in:

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    "I'm so RONERY!!!"
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    The man is a lunatic. Its time for the international community to stop playing games and step up to the plate , China realy needs to take charge in this along with the US.
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    If any type of armed conflict were to break out on the peninsula the North would be able to significantly damage every major ROK city in hours, not with nukes, but with artillery. I've seen estimates that state that there would be upwards of 8,000 casualties on the FIRST day of hostilities. Included in these would be some of the roughly 32,000 American soldiers who are stationed in the ROK.

    While war should certainly be avoided at all costs, the world still has to show a strong front to this nut's aggression. I hope that the current proposals of sanctions and a blockade will have some effect on the gov't of the North.

    The worst thing about dictators such as KjL is not that they're crazy, its that they have a tendecy to miscalculate with disastorous results. Who knows what would could happen if KJL orders ships to try to run through a blockade with the expectation that we won't react accordingly. Make no mistake about it, this is a very dangerous situation, and has several similarities to the Cuban Missile Crisis.

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    rook, in that you maybe right. But looking at the big picture, North Korea is still using military technology based on '80's Russian/Chinese equipment. In that regard, I think the only thing that North Korean numbers in eqauipment is going to be just a larger numbder of targets of opportunity.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rookienc
    If any type of armed conflict were to break out on the peninsula the North would be able to significantly damage every major ROK city in hours, not with nukes, but with artillery.
    That's a little bit of an overestimate. The range of the North's artillery can hit Seoul and a bit beyond the Han River, but not much further than that. Cities south of that are not in artillery range. Other weapons, sure, but artillery is not going to lay waste to ever major ROK city.
    Tom Warshaw
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    "Scientists believe that the world is composed mainly of hydrogen because in their opinion, it is the most abundant element. I however, feel the earth is composed mainly of stupidity, because it is more abundant than hydrogen." - Frank Zappa

    September 11, 2001. We Must Never Forget.

    In memory of Thomas Sabella, L-13, FDNY


    All opinions stated are my own and do not reflect the opinions of my department or any organization I may belong to.

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    Do you guys think this has anything to do with the earthquake in thailand, or is it just a coincidence? Maybe they have something to do with each other, maybe not?
    J

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    Saying that EVERY major city is in artillery range may indeed be a bit of an overstatement, however, the damage that North Korea could inflict from artillery and initial attacks from saboteurs would be devestating. The good news is that it appears that China is taking a hard line against KJL making any swift, aggressive moves. Of course, who knows what's happening behind the scenes...

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    Quote Originally Posted by BFDNJFF


    The man is a lunatic. Its time for the international community to stop playing games and step up to the plate , China realy needs to take charge in this along with the US.
    Actually that image brings to mind the discussion on the radio yesterday and this morning:

    "Maybe the "explosion" was really just a bunch of fireworks that they set off to give the impression a bomb was detonated." (or something to those words and effect.)
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