Why register? ...To Enhance Your Experience
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 24
  1. #1
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    775

    Default Who has facial hair?

    So next week is another Academy refresher for me, and that means shaving clean again. I hated that the first time through, and I am not to happy about it this time either.

    Of course the Academy can insist on whatever dress standards it pleases, and of course I will comply, but I question the need. I base this on two things:

    1. I have a moustache, not a beard, and so if I can't get a seal on my mask, I am already in trouble;

    2. Even for the guys with goatees, if your department allows them and they don't interfere with your mask, wouldn't the training be more realistic if it reflected how these guys will be in the real world;

    3. I kinda liked the regimented and paramilitary nature of the Academy, I think it has real benefits. But this is an 8-hour refresher.

    So, does anyone wear hair? Again, I accept the authority of the Academy to do this and have no intention of causing trouble over it, I'm just wondering what other people's opinions are.


  2. #2
    MembersZone Subscriber ChiefReason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Illinois-where pertnear is close enough!
    Posts
    5,636

    Default

    randsc:
    I think it comes down to liability and whether or not the mask will get the proper seal.
    I am certified to perform respirator fit testing and we are taught that even a day's growth of facial hair could cause a respirator not to seal properly.
    To my knowledge, there is no mask out there that will seal against a goatee, exceptionally long or bushy side burns or beard. Moustaches are allowed as long as they are trimmed to above the jaw line.
    Hope this helps.
    Good luck with the refresher.
    CR
    Visit www.iacoj.com
    Remember Bradley Golden (9/25/01)
    RIP HOF Robert J. Compton(ENG6511)

  3. #3
    IACOJ BOD FlyingKiwi's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    4,757

    Default

    Place copious amounts of silicone over the hair.

    As long as it is smooth you should get a good seal.

    Next weeks installment. "How to remove silicone from hair."
    Psychiatrists state 1 in 4 people has a mental illness.
    Look at three of your friends, if they are ok, your it.

  4. #4
    Forum Member Hazmat91180's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    South Eastern WI
    Posts
    108

    Default

    yep I had to shave my goatee right away. And we are not allowed to have them ever. must be properly shaved every day you show up for work.

  5. #5
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Norwalk IA, 50211
    Posts
    36

    Talking

    Don't all men have facial hair? :-)

  6. #6
    Hook & Can
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    376

    Default

    ..........................
    Last edited by Nine3Probie; 07-28-2013 at 05:59 PM.

  7. #7
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    775

    Default !!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by hustond
    Don't all men have facial hair? :-)
    How dare you assume all firefighters are men!!!!

    Just kidding. But there is a female fireFIGHTER on my deprtment who would actually respond that way, and in that tone. And when it caused people not to want to spend alot of time with her, she would blame the "sexist" guys for not wanting to bond with her.

    Anyway, that CR. I suspect that liability concerns are as likely a concern as any. Although even then, if a single day's growth can screw your mask, what happens at the tail end of a busy 48 hour shift? Or when vollies hop out of bed at 3:00 am? I doubt many shave before responding...

    In any case, I haven't heard anything that should prohibit 'staches. I suspect the instructors would rather just not deal with "refereeing" what is acceptable and what is not.

  8. #8
    Forum Member fireman4949's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Tallahassee, Florida
    Posts
    2,323

    Default

    I want to know what brand of SCBA will not seal because of a moustache!

    Sounds like maybe you just need a bigger face piece!
    Fire Lieutenant/E.M.T.
    IAFF Local 2339
    K of C 4th Degree
    "LEATHER FOREVER"
    Member I.A.C.O.J.
    http://www.tfdfire.com/
    "Fir na tine"

  9. #9
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    The merry old land of Oz
    Posts
    165

    Default

    I met a crusty old Captain over in the Hudson Valley about 30 years ago who sported the nicest handlebar moustache you ever laid eyes on. Well waxed with a three coil twirl that, when streached out measured about 20 inches from tip to tip.
    He claimed to have never had a problem with his air mask ... the wax was so heavy that the darn thing would stick flat to his face and the mask go right over it with no trouble.

  10. #10
    XNA1590
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Thumbs up Go-tee

    I have a go-tee trimed right to the bottom of my chin and i never have had a problem with making a good seal. I went through my academy that way and have gone to The Mississippi ARFF re-cert program and never once had a problem...

  11. #11
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Nov 1999
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    1,017

    Default

    What type of academy has a no facial hair policy? Do they pay you to go there? Can they document any safety reason for being clean shaven? I mean real citations, not stories of a guy two counties over or what an OSHA inspector said to their best friend's cousin. Do they limit hair length and earings too? The academy cannot insist on any dress or grooming standards they want. Is this a private academy or one funded by tax dollars?
    -------------------------------
    The OSHA regulation on facial hair:

    1910.134(g)(1)(i)
    The employer shall not permit respirators with tight-fitting facepieces to be worn by employees who have:

    1910.134(g)(1)(i)(A)
    Facial hair that comes between the sealing surface of the facepiece and the face or that interferes with valve function. . .
    ---------------------------------
    It does not matter if you can pass the fit test with the neatly trimed beard.

    I'd seriously question the requirement of shaving a moustache that does not interfere with a facepiece seal. It sounds like a decision by someone who has never actually read the respiratory protection regulations.

    If the administration of the academy has issues understanding simple OSHA regulations, or feels they must dictate how you look for the privilage of them teaching you a refresher, I'd question the credibility of thier training as a whole.
    Last edited by KenNFD1219; 10-16-2006 at 08:27 PM.
    -------------------
    "The most mediocre man or woman can suddenly seem dynamic, forceful, and decisive if he or she is mean enough." from "Crazy Bosses"
    -----------------------------------------------
    Genius has its limits, but stupidity is boundless.

  12. #12
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    California
    Posts
    584

    Default

    Is the academy part of the department? If so why does it have a different policy? Sounds odd to me.

  13. #13
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    775

    Default Nope

    Quote Originally Posted by NonSurfinCaFF
    Is the academy part of the department? If so why does it have a different policy? Sounds odd to me.
    Nope, the Academy is state-run.

  14. #14
    MembersZone Subscriber SIGNAL99COM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 1999
    Location
    East Syracuse, NY
    Posts
    286

    Default

    It's easy. OSHA says no facial hair that comes in contact with the seal on your mask. That means goatees and beards are out. I like this rule because I believe the fire service, both volunteer and career should run in a paramilitary fasion, and I don't see too many of our troops running around with goatees and beards!
    Chris Shields
    Lieutenant / EMT
    Haz-Mat Technician
    East Syracuse Fire Dept
    Onondaga County, NY

  15. #15
    Forum Member WFDjr1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Waynesboro, VA, possibly relocating to Virginia Beach in the near future!
    Posts
    783

    Default

    I'll shave the morning of my shift, but usually that's the only time. I still run as a volly with the department I started out with, but unless there's a department function I plan on attending, they're pretty lenient about the two hatters and facial hair on the fire scene, granted it's not a full fledged beard.

    However, some mornings I run late and don't get to shave before work, but I'm still young, so I can get away with it a little better than the older guys!
    Last edited by WFDjr1; 10-17-2006 at 02:41 AM. Reason: because I can
    These are my opinions, not those of my career department, my volunteer company, or my affiliates. And by the way, I'm not a Junior.

    Buy me a drink, sing me a song, take me as I come 'cause I can't stay long.

    Johnny Greene: 2/3/45-5/2/04
    Forever in our hearts

  16. #16
    Forum Member PattyV's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    1,272

    Default

    and I don't see too many of our troops running around with goatees and beards!
    I dont know about America but in Australia the Army and Air force are allowed to have moustaches trimmed to the length of the corner of their mouths. The Navy is allowed full faced beards. Its just a tradition with the Navy.

    Im a rural fire fighter so I dont have to worry about seals so I have a beard. Only problem is that Im applying for the Navy and they advise that you go to all of your interviews clean shaven despite allowing facial hair once your in. So before two interviews I have had to shave my beard off and twice I have regrown it. Now that its just getting its shape back I have another interview coming up. I might just abandon facial hair till I enlist but then shaving is such a chore.
    "There are only two things that i know are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And im not so sure about the former."

    For all the life of me, i cant see a firefighter going to hell. At least not for very long. We would end up putting out all the fires and annoying the devil too much.

  17. #17
    Fir Na Tine LuckyThirteen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Sumter, SC
    Posts
    222

    Default

    US Military is moustaches only. There are exceptions to that rule though for things like Special Operations (to help blend in) or for Air Force OSI agents when working undercover.
    Tom Warshaw
    Station 13 (Bethel)
    Sumter Fire Department

    "Scientists believe that the world is composed mainly of hydrogen because in their opinion, it is the most abundant element. I however, feel the earth is composed mainly of stupidity, because it is more abundant than hydrogen." - Frank Zappa

    September 11, 2001. We Must Never Forget.

    In memory of Thomas Sabella, L-13, FDNY


    All opinions stated are my own and do not reflect the opinions of my department or any organization I may belong to.

  18. #18
    MembersZone Subscriber MalahatTwo7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Loco madidus effercio in rutilus effercio.
    Posts
    12,828

    Default

    I sport a mustache, but it is of course trimmed in accordance with "Regulations".

    The Canadian Navy has been fighting with this issue for years, especially in light of the events of 9-11 and the First Gulf War. Navy personnel who had beards were REQUIRED to shave them off when deploying to "hostile" theaters of operations. The premise for this is because the SCBA and CHEMOX masks (ya we still use them - come visit HMCS TORONTO in Baltimore this weekend - 20 October to see them) would not create the required seal. Funny thing about CHEMOX is it is a POSITIVE pressure system. I forget what the overpressure numbers are though. I also recall hearing Salty Sailors saying that they had never had a problem with a mask seal with or without a beard.

    In any case they have since recinded that order, and it is mostly up to individual ships' Captains to make the policy for his ship.
    If you don't do it RIGHT today, when will you have time to do it over? (Hall of Fame basketball player/coach John Wooden)

    "I may be slow, but my work is poor." Chief Dave Balding, MVFD

    "Its not Rocket Science. Just use a LITTLE imagination." (Me)

    Get it up. Get it on. Get it done!

    impossible solved cotidie. miracles postulo viginti - quattuor hora animadverto

    IACOJ member: Cheers, Play safe y'all.

  19. #19
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Schenectady, NY
    Posts
    459

    Default

    Our health provider wont waste its time if you are not clean shaven. With out the fit test we a put on the sideline.

  20. #20
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Nov 1999
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    1,017

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fitguy51
    Our health provider wont waste its time if you are not clean shaven. With out the fit test we a put on the sideline.
    By clean shaven, do you mean no facial hair at all?
    -------------------
    "The most mediocre man or woman can suddenly seem dynamic, forceful, and decisive if he or she is mean enough." from "Crazy Bosses"
    -----------------------------------------------
    Genius has its limits, but stupidity is boundless.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Facial Hair?
    By FFPyro in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 11-02-2004, 03:13 PM
  2. Facial Hair info needed...
    By 29Ladder51 in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 03-11-2003, 06:27 AM
  3. Facial Hair affects SCBAs?
    By Pride373 in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 02-14-2003, 03:56 PM
  4. OSHA vs. Facial hair
    By CIFD88 in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 07-02-2002, 05:04 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts