10-19-2006, 12:23 AM #1
- Join Date
- Aug 2004
What does everyone think of this?
This past weekend I was able to go and cut up a 2006 cadillac. Now lets get to the topic, I took a seminar on NEW CAR TECHNOLOGY. The speaker was an engineer from GM. He proceeded to tell everyone that there is no need to disconnect the battery, that when you shut the vehicle off and remove the key from the ignition the system is shut down and there is no need to cut the battery cables. Also, he is saying that the airbags connot be deployed by other sources of power such as cell phone batteries, lap tops and so on. He says that the airbags have no connection with the auxilary power.
I called him on this telling him everything that I have learned and he got quite defensive. He proceeded to tell me that all this info was sent to Mr. Moore and got a reply back why he was sending this info. He figures that I should go back to my department and have the protocols changed from cutting the cables. Don't get me wrong, some of the information was usefull but I think he is full of it.
What is everyone elses veiws on this and is this info reliable coming from the engineering dept. of GM?
10-19-2006, 08:56 AM #2
Ask him how much time he has spent in the field dealing with vehicles AFTER they have crashed. I don't care about his engineering theories, but real world experience. Removing a key from a car does not disable airbags and/or electrical systems.
Thank him for his time, add the information to your collection, move on."This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?
10-19-2006, 09:29 AM #3
- Join Date
- Dec 2001
- Lusby, MD
I tend to agree with Bones. Too many things can happen in a crash that the engineers can't plan for. There are also secondary reasons for disconnecting the battery such as reducing the chance of sparks due to a short that make it a smart thing to do, not to mention trying to figure out on the scene if this one is designed to kill power when you remove the key or not.
Being an engineer, I understand the difference between design intent and the real world. Unfortunatley, many of us engineers don't.
10-19-2006, 10:11 AM #4
Safe Or Sorry
I Think We Will Keep Our Batterty And Aux. Power Sorce Disconnect Protocal For Now. I Wouldnt Want To Be The First Guy To Prove Gm Wrong.
10-19-2006, 10:31 AM #5
And why not? People having been proving GM engineers(and Daimler and Ford etc)WRONG since the advent of the motorized wheel.So why change now?Like the others say,this isn't the crash lab,it's the real world and unusual events can and do occur.Securing the power reduces the risks: PERIOD! Perhaps this engineer would like to join us at O-dark thirty to test his theories.Or,even better,perhaps he would like to repair some of his "wonderful"designs in the driveway in Nome Alaska during the cool season.I'll bet there would be a few design changes. T.C.
10-19-2006, 11:48 AM #6
- Join Date
- Feb 2005
- Ft Worth, Tx
[QUOTE=chavoman]This past weekend I was able to go and cut up a 2006 cadillac. Now lets get to the topic, I took a seminar on NEW CAR TECHNOLOGY. The speaker was an engineer from GM.
He proceeded to tell everyone that there is no need to disconnect the battery, that when you shut the vehicle off and remove the key from the ignition the system is shut down and there is no need to cut the battery cables.
I challenge him to explain to us how the Dayton incident happened.
1. The vehicle was a GM product.
2. There is no doubt in any one's mind that the ignition was turned off, they tried to get to the battery, they prepared for fire, they realized the need to shut down the system, so there is no doubt in our minds that they turned the key off. The video is a reconstruction, you can see in one view the key is out of the switch, in another view the key is in the switch, but by his theory when the key is off the electrical system is shut down. so the key still in the slot would not make a difference (we pull the key to stop it from being turned back on).
3. By his theory when the key is off the system is isolated from the electrical currant, so that means there would be nothing to keep the capacitors charged, most GM capacitors bleed down within 5 min. (The Dayton incident was 30-40 min. into the operation.)
Also, he is saying that the airbags cannot be deployed by other sources of power such as cell phone batteries, lap tops and so on. He says that the airbags have no connection with the auxiliary power.
He says that the airbags have no connection with the auxiliary power. In engineering theory and in a brand now car, this is true but in reality all wiring in every system of the vehicle strands from one post on the battery. In reality we are working with mangled wreckage, bare and cut wires, and any currant in that car can travel back through any system connected to that post, including cell phones or stereo systems plugged into the cigarette lighter or wired into the systems, including the currant stored in their capacitors.
I called him on this telling him everything that I have learned and he got quite defensive.
BEWARE!!! of any instructor who answers defensively, This is usually a lack of preparation or a challenge of his knowledge. a good instructor will explain in detail or tell you he will study it out and get back to you.
Never depend on one instructors word, take what he says compare it to what others say and then study it for yourself.
He proceeded to tell me that all this info was sent to Mr. Moore and got a reply back why he was sending this info. He figures that I should go back to my department and have the protocols changed from cutting the cables. Don't get me wrong, some of the information was useful but I think he is full of it.
What is everyone elses veiws on this and is this info reliable coming from the engineering dept. of GM?[/QUOTE]
WELL !!!! AW AW AW
Last edited by LeeJunkins; 10-19-2006 at 01:41 PM.http://www.midsouthrescue.org
Is it time to change our training yet ?
10-20-2006, 04:25 PM #7
- Join Date
- Aug 2006
2006 International Extrication Comp
I had a great oppertunity to attend and particapate in a wonderful learning experience at the 2006 International competition in Burlington, Ontario we we had over 40 Brand new 2006 and 2007 GM Trucks and Cars to CUT and examine. I will tell you I spent alot of time with GM working on these cars and there are alot of changes on the way. we deployed over 40 Airbags, Driver, Passenger, Side Curtain and Seat Mounted. We attemted to set off the bags in the 2007 Buicks with a traditional (model rocket launcher) Battery however due to a safety device built into them we were unable to set them off and had to ressort to a 12 Volt car battery in order to overcome the safety's. also every car there had Smart bags and we deployed both stages of the bags, I am happy to report that after the inital deployent of the bag with in 2 seconds the 2nd stage automatically deployed to the fresh air and did NOT redeploy the bag. Great safety feature. I have over 300 photos of these new cars and some of the things to come if interested email me @ Bantamff@yahoo.com. And remember that engineer may have designed those systems. Be Nice and Be Safe!
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