Thread: Niedner LDH

  1. #1
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    West Point, VA
    Posts
    435

    Default Niedner LDH

    I tried a search, but was unable to come up with what I am looking for.

    I was wondering if anyone is using Niedner 4 inch LDH. If so, can you tell me what friction loss you are experiencing. It is my understanding that they have a significant decrease in FL.

    I was wondering about flows of 500, 1000, & 1500gpm.

  2. #2
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    5

    Default Niedner

    Send me PM and I will give you a contact who has sold Niedner and uses it on their FD.
    Last edited by SunVVFD; 10-26-2006 at 09:13 AM. Reason: Personal info

  3. #3
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    West Point, VA
    Posts
    435

    Default

    Sun

    If the area code is 352, I got the number in my email notification of reply. I appreciate the help.

  4. #4
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    8

    Default Hose LDH

    Why 4 inch ldh??? Go to 5 inch and flow your gpm with much reduced friction loss. This is all we use on a regular basis.

  5. #5
    Forum Member
    Dave1983's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Gator Country
    Posts
    4,157

    Default

    We dont have any of their LDH, but do have some 1 3/4", 2" and 2 1/2" and are happy with it.
    Fire Marshal/Safety Officer

    IAAI-NFPA-IAFC/VCOS-Retired IAFF

    "No his mind is not for rent, to any god or government"
    RUSH-Tom Sawyer

    Success is when skill meets opportunity
    Failure is when fantasy meets reality

  6. #6
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    343

    Default

    We run their hose exclusively. Pretty good, better than what we had previously. Don't know about 4", we went 5". Lays well, packs well, nothing super noticable.

  7. #7
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    111

    Default

    We just pulled EVERY section of our 1 3/4" neidner "lay flat style" hose. We were finding that it failed to often, did not deploy well (knotted up), got kinked on corners and had incredible friction loss. Our standard line was 200' of Neidner with a TFT, it flowed at 150 ep 146gpm. We replaced everything with Ponn Conquest and Akron 200 gpm / 75 psi nozzles and are now at 150 ep getting 250 gpm!! Of that number we equated back that 40 gpm comes directly to the hose, feel the inside of your Neidner someday and feel how rough it is, that's friction loss!! But hey it does lay flat and compact. If you want the numbers post your email and I'll send it out.

  8. #8
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Bryn Athyn, Pa.
    Posts
    1,625

    Default

    We have or have had Neidner hose in 1-3/4", 2" and 5". Some members feel that the hand line sizes have not held up well, I haven't noticed that so much. Their light weight hose seems to me to work out very well in our standpipe (high rise) packs.

    Our 5" dates back to 1989. We bought it because at the time, we felt that it was the most suitable hose for our high hydrant pressures (185+ in many cases). It's lighter than anything comparable at the time we bought it. It also seems to pack better than anything else, then or now. But their floating inner liners sometimes take a twist that makes it difficult to roll and goofy to pack. We were concerned about it retaining the twist after being deployed and charged, causing a restriction, but that doesn't seem to be a problem. We were also concerned that the inner liner could come loose and find its way into the pump, a'la Snap-Tite, but that never happened either. If you recouple your own hose like we do, you have to be very careful to get all three layers properly inserted over the coupling ring.

    Like any woven hose, the Neidner snakes like crazy when it's charged.

    But the years have taken their toll, and while the Neidner can still flow beaucoup water, some of it looks like lawn sprinklers. We've replaced all of it with Angus Hi-Combat Lite. The Hi-Combat Lite doesn't weigh very much more and its operating pressure is 200 psi, test 225. It doesn't pack nearly as nicely and you can't get as much on, but it doesn't snake very much, either. That's a plus, because in some cases snaking is the difference between maintaining access on a street for incoming apparatus or not.

    Stay safe out there, everyone goes home!
    Last edited by chiefengineer11; 12-10-2006 at 10:15 PM. Reason: Spelling

  9. #9
    Let's talk fire trucks!
    BoxAlarm187's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    3,348

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by buckdog
    We just pulled EVERY section of our 1 3/4" neidner "lay flat style" hose. We were finding that it failed to often, did not deploy well (knotted up), got kinked on corners and had incredible friction loss.
    There's a large FD in the Central Virginia area that had to pull 1000's of feet of Neidner out of service in the past couple of months due the inner liner seperating from the outer shell and creating all kinds of problems. They discovered the problem after another very large Virginia FD experienced similar problems are gave FD #2 a heads-up.

    I personally don't have experience with the Niedner hose, but I thought that that the above information might interest you, espically based on your location. My VFD doesn't currently use low friction loss hose (waiting until new engine arrives next year), but at work we use Ponn Conquest attack line and Angus 5" LDH with great luck.

    Take a look at the "More LDH Problems" article on this section of FFCC.com ... http://firefighterclosecalls.com/averted.php.

    Hope this helps...

  10. #10
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Bryn Athyn, Pa.
    Posts
    1,625

    Default To Spencer 534

    Spencer534 - Please contact me at chiefengineer11@earthlink.net. Have a question about West Point. Thanks

  11. #11
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    111

    Default

    Thats exactly what happened to ours, inner liner seperation and the lawn sprinkler scenario. How can you trust it??

  12. #12
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Bryn Athyn, Pa.
    Posts
    1,625

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by buckdog
    Thats exactly what happened to ours, inner liner seperation and the lawn sprinkler scenario. How can you trust it??
    You would have to talk to someone at Neidner or someone very up on hose design, but if I remember correctly, that inner liner was supposed to "float." I don't know if it was attached at the folds, or if it was completely free, but I know on ours, the inner liner would take a twist, usually in one spot and not on every length. That would make the length roll/pack funny. Whatever it was supposed to do, I don't think it did the way they thought/said it would.

    Stay safe out there, everyone goes home!

  13. #13
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Central NJ
    Posts
    1,214

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by buckdog
    We just pulled EVERY section of our 1 3/4" neidner "lay flat style" hose. We were finding that it failed to often, did not deploy well (knotted up), got kinked on corners and had incredible friction loss. Our standard line was 200' of Neidner with a TFT, it flowed at 150 ep 146gpm. We replaced everything with Ponn Conquest and Akron 200 gpm / 75 psi nozzles and are now at 150 ep getting 250 gpm!! Of that number we equated back that 40 gpm comes directly to the hose, feel the inside of your Neidner someday and feel how rough it is, that's friction loss!! But hey it does lay flat and compact. If you want the numbers post your email and I'll send it out.

    You are seeing superior performance because you switched to 1.95" Inside diameter hose (ponn Conquest)if you bought their 1 3/4". Its a gimmik basically. Sure the hose brands have diff FL, but Ponn is a little on the extreme side.

  14. #14
    Forum Member
    FWDbuff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Pee-Ayy!
    Posts
    7,427

    Default

    Just found this on the Bucks County (Pa.) Firemans Assoc. Website:

    In case you use Niedner hose, here's a heads up.
    There was an incident in Va. Beach FD who had a pump failure at a working building fire due to the liner of a 5" hose section coming loose and being sucked into the pump.

    Testing all of their 5" hose late last week and quickly determined that about 40% of it was defective. Defective means that the inner liner was separating from the inner sleeve. Some was so bad that it was immediately taken out of service and the rest was questionable but passed the criteria we set to allow it to remain in service until replaced.

    Since the 2 1/2" and 1 3/4" are also Niedner, that was tested too. The attack lines failed at even a higher rate than the supply line. Over 50,000 feet of hose was tested over the past 5 days. The manufacturer is working to replace the faulty hose. If anyone has Niedner, they may want to visualize the inner liners at each end of the sections to determine whether the liners have separated to the point to where they present a hazard to water flow.

    Niedner has provided 2000 of new 5 hose in order for the companies to remain in service.

    Now, to address what Chiefengineer11 stated earlier- the Neidner 5" hose is an absolute pain in the *** to pack. The folds will not hold at all, and the twisting of the liners is paramount to medieval torture when it is 3am, cold and rainy.......chiefengineer11 wouldnt know, because he was always in the cab of the truck pulling forward or backwards as we packed........And in case if he decides to chime in here by saying that I am never happy with anything the company buys or some other excuse, I challenge him to present ONE name of a member of the company who likes the Neidner LDH, because ALL of the active members when we had that crap HATED it.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

  15. #15
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Hamlin, NY
    Posts
    54

    Default

    Well, Buff...we only have about 6,500 feet of Niedner, and have been using it for at least 7 years (XL-800 in 1.75", 2", 2.5" and 3") as well as SupplyLine (5") and have not experienced the issues you have presented to that degree. On the occasions when the inner liner twists (usually during draining) we just reverse twist it back into position. All sizes of the hose need to be drained using the "vacuum method" (I'm sure you're familiar with this) and when its done right, the hose is extremely flat, and packs great. We are actually carrying 1500' of 5" LDH in the same bed as we previously carried 1600' of rubber jacket (Brand S) 4" LDH. All in all, we are very happy with our switch to all Niedner, and plan to continue using it in the future. Our personnel have remarked on many occasions as to how easy it is to work with compared to the old rubber jacket stuff.

  16. #16
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    KENTUCKY
    Posts
    410

    Default

    I don't know if they've improved it, but we bought alot of Niedner 1.75" and
    5" in the late 90s. It has been junk. We took a shipment of 150 sections of1.75", and in 18 months had thrown away over 90 of them. Liner separation, couldn't drain water out because the liner would pooch out of the coupling, kinked horribly bad. We finally just gave up on it when we had crews that could not make foam using an inline eductor because they couldn't force 95 gpm through it. 5" had same problems, liner would twist. I had a picture of a piece of 5" being rolled after use. The hose was round like it was full of water, but nothing was coming out of the open butt as it was rolled. While we still have some on the trucks, we're replacing it as quickly as the budget allows. I heard from a third party that Houston FD had a liner that came loose and caused damage to the pump when it was pulled in through the intake. We use National 5" and Ponn Conqest handlines now.

  17. #17
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    111

    Default

    I think the verdict is in, avoid Neidner hose....but hey it packs flat!!

  18. #18
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    111

    Default

    Yesterday I had my first experience with 5" Neidner hose. We help a mutual dept reload about 700' of the stuff. It was a nightmare, I have never seen so many unmanageable twists in my life. It got to the point that every 100' had to be broken and walked out, the twists were so tight it looked a rag. This brought back memories of the threads posted on this site. I'm so glad that we don't have this product, we'll stick with the good old Angus or Snap Tite. But hey it lays flat!!

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Grant Info for Large Diameter Hose
    By brvolk in forum Federal FIRE ACT Grants & Funding
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 03-15-2006, 04:24 PM
  2. Water Thiefs and LDH Manifolds
    By 42VTExplorer in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 08-25-2004, 01:13 AM
  3. Pumping LDH
    By WBFD324 in forum The Engineer
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 06-01-2004, 06:13 PM
  4. Ldh
    By firemanjmp80 in forum Volunteer Forum
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 03-19-2004, 11:38 PM
  5. LDH planning and usage - longlay
    By neiowa in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 08-20-2003, 11:57 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register