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  1. #26
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    Our new engine will have some red/white chevrons on the rear. None of are other vehicles do yet. May be talk of retrofitting in the future. Traffic Incident Management has recently became a huge topic in our area and is why we addressed ordering chevrons. At this point in time we will be the first to have them in quite a large area.
    The success of a fire department depends on the willingness of its members to put aside their differences and work for the benefit of the dept/community.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post
    We SERIOUSLY looked into doing it on our pumper/tanker. The only issue we got into was price (we were restricted because of grant funds and had to prioritize). It looks different and takes some getting used to, but I think it's a pretty wise investment.
    You should check out the SCENEdots! I think you'd be surprised!

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    I have done our tanker, rescue , mini and engine with SCENEdots it takes a little time to put them on but it does look nice
    Attached Images Attached Images     

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    Smile Chevrons

    I see the link is a bit old but here's what my dept did with the engine and tanker/tender we took delivery of last summer. I was a bit skeptical at first but once I saw the engine at night with the LED's lit up and the reflectiveness of the chevron I was sold!!! We are now looking into placing the "Scenedots" on our remaining apparatus.




    http://www.customfire.com/d_pumper.php?id=467032e713316
    http://www.customfire.com/d_mobilewa...=4682b57162d6d

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    Default Traffik lites

    Have you checked out the product called Traffik Lites. They are made by a company called TK Design out of Indianapolis. The owner is a ff there in indy and we have the fix for chevron stripping on diamond plate. Check out his website at www.tkdesignindy.com or www.traffiklites.com.

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    Default Chevron Stripping

    Web site are just that, a picture. If your attempting to chevron your rig make sure the picture you look at was not taken with a flash. A flash will make any reflective material look like it has high visibilty, so ask for a picture using headlights. Make sure the material meets all the specs for 1901 also.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dotgirl View Post
    You should check out the SCENEdots! I think you'd be surprised!
    You should check out the TERMS OF SERVICE. I think you'd be surprised. Then, you can stop spamming and get an advertising space like everyone else.


    Quote Originally Posted by tbad246 View Post
    blah blah blah
    You too.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Can the Chevron striping be Red & White or does it need to be a yellow / green color?

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    15.9.3.2.1 each stripe in the chevron shall be a single color alternating between red and either yellow, flourescent yellow or flourescent yellow-green

    15.9.3.2.2 each stripe shall be 6" in width

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    Quote Originally Posted by THTMAN View Post
    Can the Chevron striping be Red & White or does it need to be a yellow / green color?
    It can be whatever color you want if you're doing a retrofit. If the rig is newly built, then it's what the standard (mentioned above) requires.
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    Default Chevron Color

    Quote Originally Posted by npfd801 View Post
    It can be whatever color you want if you're doing a retrofit. If the rig is newly built, then it's what the standard (mentioned above) requires.
    Actually that is not true, however not very many people know about it.

    If you had chevrons on your rigs prior to the mandate, then you may put in for a waiver through your MFG. The request must say "TO MATCH YOUR FLEET". This is the ONLY exception to the color rule. If you did not have another color already in use then you must go with red / yellow.

    This information is from Ken Menke who is on the NFPA committee that mandated these colors. Ken told me that there is no proof that one color is better as a warning device than another color. The only reason for red/yellow was to standardize.

    There is not a problem with "MATCHING YOUR FLEET".

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    Quote Originally Posted by fireslayer123 View Post
    Actually that is not true, however not very many people know about it.

    If you had chevrons on your rigs prior to the mandate, then you may put in for a waiver through your MFG. The request must say "TO MATCH YOUR FLEET". This is the ONLY exception to the color rule. If you did not have another color already in use then you must go with red / yellow.

    This information is from Ken Menke who is on the NFPA committee that mandated these colors.
    Do you know in which section of 1901 this exception exists?
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    Yeah, I'd LOVE to see this exception. I just looked over 1901 AGAIN and I see nothing referencing this. And every builder I know will not deviate from the red and yellow no matter what you've had on your prior rigs...

    Not saying I wouldn't like to see this, but I don't think this is the case.
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    I too searched the document, and found no reference to a color waiver. I searched on several key terms like "color", "chevron", and "waiv".

    On the other hand, I've seen manufactures offer non-compliant things on more than one occasion.

    When air horn controls were removed from being overhead, to either the steering wheel or floor, I saw Chiefs sign liability waivers to keep them on overhead strings.

    When my Dept bought a 100' platform that wasn't going to fit in the station, we asked the manufacturer to produce it with side rails that were lower than NFPA specified.

    I'm sure there will be more than one truck manufactured that will have a "Statement of Exceptions" (Chapter 4.21) outlining that the truck lacks chevrons, or the proper color chevrons.

    If one wanted red/white, you could just tell the builder to omit them, cause you had a guy in house that was going to install them super cheap. Then just add what you want after the fact. I don't recommend it, but it's an option.
    The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened. --Norman Mattoon Thomas, 6 time presidential candidate for the Socialist Party of America

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    .................................................. .................
    Last edited by fireslayer123; 03-27-2009 at 09:50 AM. Reason: bad info

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    Quote Originally Posted by fireslayer123 View Post
    Actually I don't.
    Drop Ken a line and I am sure that he can, and could you post it here when you find out?

    ------> kmenke@powerarc.net
    E-mail sent, will advise what his response is.
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    Ken replied quickly to my e-mail. Here's his response.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Menke
    Dear Lt. XXXXX,

    Thank you for the email. I think I can provide some insight and information regarding the new chevron requirements in NFPA 1901, but there needs to be some factual clarification.

    1) I am not a voting member of NFPA 1901 but actively participate in NFPA 1901 at the task group level. Only the 30 appointed committee members can approve or reject any changes, and this is by majority vote.

    2) I can not formally interpret nor speak for NFPA or the committee.

    In 2006 a proposal (15.9.3.4) was submitted by a Robert Tutterow (also a voting member of NFPA) with the recommendation that NFPA mandate the 50% red/yellow chevron on the back of all apparatus. This proposal was submitted as means to reduce the high number of rear end collusions we are seeing in the field.

    I offered to research this proposal, at the task group level, and to present my findings to see if this was something that should be added to the standard as a way to improve conspicuity on the rear of emergency apparatus. My findings and recommendations, presented to NFPA, have been attached in the power point presentation.

    At the task group level my recommendations were accepted. Regrettably, my recommendations were not accepted at the committee level.

    The required 50% of retro-reflective material and the specified colors red/yellow, were based on heuristic data. To the best of my knowledge, I have not seen any engineering studies or scientific research that can state red/yellow is better then red/white, or blue/white.

    To answer your question regarding color scheme and amending options in 1901, I must again reiterate that I am not able to speak for NFPA nor the committee. To the best of my knowledge, there is no language that states you can alter the chevron colors and maintain NFPA compliance on new apparatus. In chapter 4 (section 4.21) "Statement of Exception" provides the Contractor the ability to deliver an apparatus to the purchaser that has not met all of the requirements of NFPA 1901. This could include an apparatus being delivered without the final lettering and striping. The burden of responsibility then transfers from the contractor to the purchaser. It also clearly states that the apparatus shall not be placed in service until full compliance is met.

    I hope this information is helpful.

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    Considering the implementation of ANSI/ISEA 207-2006 (American National Standard
    for High-Visibility Public Safety Vests)
    , and the color requirements required of the fluorescent background material, shouldn't we choose a color for the non-red areas that would also meet this standard?

    We assume they've done their research to substantiate the effectiveness of those colors. Why try to reinvent the wheel, or deviate from that path?

    I posed this same question in another Chevron thread.
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    The brand new NFPA standard also says that reflective chevrons should be covering 65% of the rear of the apparatus.
    Kyle
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScooterUMT56 View Post
    The brand new NFPA standard also says that reflective chevrons should be covering 65% of the rear of the apparatus.
    Nope, only 50%.

    15.9.3.2 At least of 50% of the rear vertical surfaces of the apparatus shall be equipped with a minimum 4 inch alternating yellow and red chevron retroreflective striping sloping downward and away from the centerline of the vehicle at an angle of 45 degrees.
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    I haven't read the standand as of yet but what do depts that have over 80% of the rear of there apparatus covered in diamond tread do? One of our engines is mostely diamond tread. We plan on purchasing an exact replica of our current engine in the next year or so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FIREINST View Post
    I haven't read the standand as of yet but what do depts that have over 80% of the rear of there apparatus covered in diamond tread do? One of our engines is mostely diamond tread. We plan on purchasing an exact replica of our current engine in the next year or so.
    Those areas normally diamond plate on the rear face will probably be finished in smooth aluminum or stainless, and the chevron applied. So your twin won't be quite identical...
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    Just wondering if this apparatus has been delivered. The thread was started 10/06. It seems as though it should be about time to be delivered if the bid was awarded to ALF.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    Nope, only 50%.

    15.9.3.2 At least of 50% of the rear vertical surfaces of the apparatus shall be equipped with a minimum 4 inch alternating yellow and red chevron retroreflective striping sloping downward and away from the centerline of the vehicle at an angle of 45 degrees.
    I lied... Someone at my station with some credibility said 65%. I guess I have to beat the credibility out of them.
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    In addition our 1991 Pierce Aerial currently under refurb at Pierce will have the same packages applied.

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