afg debt reduction

[chief206]

We got an email tonight for a reduction in our AFG grant, IS this common??

[BC79er_OLDDELETE]

Not rampant but it depends on the request. Many vehicles are being reduced, deemed excessive by reviewers. Also some equipment prices have been reduced for asking for more than the unpublished but slightly known maximums ($5k SCBA, $2k head to toe PPE, etc, etc). Also quantities have been reduced, such as asking for more than 1 spare bottle per SCBA. Things like that. While it sucks when it happens, there are valid and regulatory reasons for making the reductions. They can't break the law in making them, so make sure you find out the full reason before accepting it. But odds are it is going to stay.

[srllineoff]

I did a grant for an ambulance agency in NY and we just got an reduction for EMS gear for the coat and pants to a set amount for each.....Looks like we got the award....Who knows when we will get announced.....the rep wouldn't e-mail me back on that part

[batt403]

I'm putting this to some of the people who know better than I.
We just received this within the past 30 minutes.

While reviewing your 2006 Assistance to Firefighters Grant Application, we found the cost of the requested boots ($280) and the Thermal Imaging Camera ($12,750) excessive. If awarded, FEMA would only fund $250 towards the purchase of the boots and $11,000 towards the purchase of the Thermal Imaging Camera. If this is agreeable to you please respond to this email indicating so.

Although this is perfectly fine and obviously we will accept if we have to the problem is that I[I] made a mistake and only put in enough money for 4 SCBA's instead of the requested 8. A mistake that will cost us 4 SCBA's since we can not afford the $12,000 and change to purchase the additional 4.

The above reduction would equal $2,350.00.

Sure would like to keep this 2350 and use it towards the purchase of 1 additional SCBA. any suggestions.

[toddmcbr]

I think that's probably all you're going to get. I would say take the money and at least get the 4 SCBAs. From my experiences, I really don't think there is much else you can do.

[BC79er_OLDDELETE]

Nice to see they upped the TIC to $11K from $10K. Boot pricing is higher than it used to be ($200) also.

You are pretty much stuck with the pricing on the items, and the 4 SCBA. If you manage to save $5K through competitive bidding on the other items you can put that $5K towards additional SCBA, so that will come close to buying 2 more. You should certainly be able to find good boots for less than $250 fed matching, and a decent TIC can be found for under $10K. Just a thought.

[batt403]

Thanks for the info. folks. We will be replying to the e-mail shorlty with the YES answer. Do they really think we would say no.......
This grant alone will be 1.5 years of our TOTAL budget.
Got the 10 questions on 9-25-06 and the reduction today, looks like end of November before notification.

[cozz1119]

Received word from the AFG folks that my price for a CAFS unit for our 1999 pumper (2000gpm Hale /500tank) would be reduced by half. I discussed the pricing with our Hale pump service providers and based on that information, I used that price. Of course project will have to bid out, but they are saying only $40,500 for a CAFS retro-fit install. Anybody have any thoughts or experience in this area. We a are small rural volunteer department and could not possibly fund the difference between the AFG number and the quote from the Hale guys.

[RAMFIRE42]

BATT403

My Dept Just Picked-up Structural Firefighting Boots For $100.00 A Pair. Not Sure What Kind You Were Asking For?? Also We Bought A Demo Msa Thermal Camera With A Savings Of $1000.00. Please Check With You Local Suppliers.

[onebugle]

cozz,

Give the AFG a call and get an explanation for the 50% reduction. Provide additional info to prove your case based on what they are telling you. The reduction could be from the fact they did not fully understand what you were doing. There have been cases where funding (some) has been restored following a follow up phone call.

It does not hurt to try, the worst they can do is say no.

[BC79er_OLDDELETE]

Ram, odds are they were leather boots. $100 rubber ones aren't worth anything if you actually train or fight more than 1 real fire a year. My department issues us these. In 6 years I went through I don't know how many pairs. Each one lasted about 2 fires before coming apart at seams. I got tired of trading them back in. Leathers can be had for around $200 and they'll last a long time. I'm buying my next pair of boots.

[Greenacres2]

Brian, that's just wrong. With the financial condition that your department is in, rubber boots just sound insane to me. That's not an extravagance (spelling??)--leather (or the modern equivalent) would be a much wiser investment for them to make. On top of that, it would reduce the risk of ankle injury, etc. With all the good things y'all got going--why rubber boots???

All right, my rant's over. Let us know if we need to form a posse to storm the gates and get your guys leather.

earl

[BC79er_OLDDELETE]

Thanks for the Viking Raid party offer Earl.

I won't comment on the reasons why the dept doesn't buy them, wouldn't be professional IMO to air the laundry. Besides, every department needs at least 1 issue that doesn't make sense to the rest of the world. That's the spice of it.

[Greenacres2]

Thanks for the Viking Raid party offer Earl.

I won't comment on the reasons why the dept doesn't buy them, wouldn't be professional IMO to air the laundry. Besides, every department needs at least 1 issue that doesn't make sense to the rest of the world. That's the spice of it.

What's in YOUR wallet?????

Nothing like a little controversy to keep the "edge" up between calls!! All kidding aside, after one year in rubber (leaky) and 3 years in P-W 5000's--i'd say that you are wise to spend your own $$ if you must. Between comfort, support and safety, they are well worth the 25 to 30 cents per day over the life of the boot. Very competitive with $100 rubbers on the cost-benefit side!!

earl (how was that for a cost-benefit statement??)

[batt403]

Just a tad bit of information the boots that we are requesting are for wildland opertions. Yes, I understand that cheaper boots can be found and we will find cheaper boots!
Also as far as structure firefighting boots, my career department (not the department that is hopefully receiving the grant) issued us a new pair of rubber on our original start date but also orders a set of leather. Needles to say once the leather boots come in NO one uses the rubber anymore, but they are there for backup.

[Greenacres2]

If you are doing REAL wildland, them are expensive and they lace tight!! We did a Thorogood zip-front structural for our "vegetation" bags (mostly cultivated crop and light woods--urban and ag interface) which will serve well as a back-up structural boot. No zip-ups or pull-ons for wildland--those boots are a special breed.

Wildfire is a different form of firefighting, thank God for those who do it.

earl

[tfentress]

Yeah, as Earl stated Wildland is a different form of firefighting. We have two firefighters on our dept. that our wildland firefighters and they are teaching me new ideas I have never thought of.

Just thought I would put my two cents in.
Tom

Oh yeah we also have the zip up boots. They are very comfortable, when worn with our lighter wildland gear.