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Thread: Phenix Leather helmets

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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    Jlynn, those pictures are almost an exact copy of what happened to my Phenix. Mine was after one decent burn, in which the tets, stickers and leather front all came out looking like nothing had happened.

    Phenix warrantied the helmet (after telling me it was my fault- if you want to know how they knew that ask me) and I got the shell replaced for free. I sold it as soon as I got it back and the person who bought it is having the same issues again, just not as bad. We do not see a lot of fire around here.

    Contact Phenix directly, send them the pictures and hope for the best.
    I have emailed Phenix and am awaiting a response, I don't expect anything til at least tomorrow. I would love to hear why they said it was your fault. I was surprised to see my helmet had deformed that badly. Most of the discoloration that is on there was from other fires, I can honestly say it never got that hot last night. I have the cheapo bourkes on there and they aren't even deformed whatsoever, and the shield isn't deformed at all. Not sure what the deal is, I haven't even had it a year yet. I sure hope they will repair it under warranty.

    Quote Originally Posted by bwalters199 View Post
    be a man and wear a n5a or n6a
    I've heard the new Cairns helmets are pretty low quality compared to what they use to be, if they don't replace this one for some reason I guess I will just go back to the department issued Conway and forget about having a leather helmet. If they do replace it I will leave in the truck and wear my Conway to structure fires and wear the leather to everything else. Its way more comfortable than the Conway but if it has this issue in moderate heat then no since in ruining another one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jlynn163 View Post
    I have emailed Phenix and am awaiting a response, I don't expect anything til at least tomorrow. I would love to hear why they said it was your fault. I was surprised to see my helmet had deformed that badly. Most of the discoloration that is on there was from other fires, I can honestly say it never got that hot last night. I have the cheapo bourkes on there and they aren't even deformed whatsoever, and the shield isn't deformed at all. Not sure what the deal is, I haven't even had it a year yet. I sure hope they will repair it under warranty.



    I've heard the new Cairns helmets are pretty low quality compared to what they use to be, if they don't replace this one for some reason I guess I will just go back to the department issued Conway and forget about having a leather helmet. If they do replace it I will leave in the truck and wear my Conway to structure fires and wear the leather to everything else. Its way more comfortable than the Conway but if it has this issue in moderate heat then no since in ruining another one.
    After going through Shaun Russel (he is the Phenix rep on this board) and a little bit of email back and forth I received a phone call from an older gentleman with Phenix. I cannot rememeber his name, I just remember him being a retired chief from somewhere in Cali. He informed me that they had a way of running a forensic test on the threads of my chin strap to see how hot the helmet actually got. Seriously. He then told me he "had no doubt" that the helmet failure was my fault, but that they were going to replace the shell anyway.

    After that we had about an hour long conversation about East vs West coast firefighting, training burns, etc. He was a pretty cool guy. Other than the part where he told me that they were only allowed to light training burns with one pallet at a time in the corner of the room. He lost me on that one.

    I have since purchased two Houstons and never looked back. Good luck with things.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    After going through Shaun Russel (he is the Phenix rep on this board) and a little bit of email back and forth I received a phone call from an older gentleman with Phenix. I cannot rememeber his name, I just remember him being a retired chief from somewhere in Cali. He informed me that they had a way of running a forensic test on the threads of my chin strap to see how hot the helmet actually got. Seriously. He then told me he "had no doubt" that the helmet failure was my fault, but that they were going to replace the shell anyway.

    After that we had about an hour long conversation about East vs West coast firefighting, training burns, etc. He was a pretty cool guy. Other than the part where he told me that they were only allowed to light training burns with one pallet at a time in the corner of the room. He lost me on that one.

    I have since purchased two Houstons and never looked back. Good luck with things.
    I'm not sure what I will hear from them, but I can tell you now that if that helmet got too hot its because they make an inferior product because I have been in way hotter than that with no issues with any gear I have had in the past. I didn't even have my earflaps down and was only feeling moderate heat. 2 guys I was in there with had Cairns helmets (1 New yorker, 1 Houston) with absolutely no issues. I will look forward to what they try to tell me. I have heard nothing but good things about Phenix so I'm hoping for the best, I would hate to spend $400 on a helmet to not even get a year out of it.

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    Just to give you a heads up, they'll try and pick apart your story due to the pictures. My TL2 has started to seperate just like yours has, just not that bad (mine has seperated about an inch and is definitley noticeable). They will look at the nomex earflaps and the tetrahedrons in your picture and tell you that you did get it too hot, trying to discredit your story. Now, I believe the helmet should hold up a lot better than that especially if you see a lot of fire and want a long lasting leather. My TL2 was involved in a magnesium explosion earlier this year which took a chunk about the size of a penny out of the top part of my lid. I emailed Phenix, and Shaun Russell called me and said the helmet was still fine because it didnt reach the impact cap. Told me how to fix it with PC-7 (I think) and leather paint. Hopefully theyll fix yours or give you a refund. Best of luck and stay safe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtvfr6 View Post
    Just to give you a heads up, they'll try and pick apart your story due to the pictures. My TL2 has started to seperate just like yours has, just not that bad (mine has seperated about an inch and is definitley noticeable). They will look at the nomex earflaps and the tetrahedrons in your picture and tell you that you did get it too hot, trying to discredit your story. Now, I believe the helmet should hold up a lot better than that especially if you see a lot of fire and want a long lasting leather. My TL2 was involved in a magnesium explosion earlier this year which took a chunk about the size of a penny out of the top part of my lid. I emailed Phenix, and Shaun Russell called me and said the helmet was still fine because it didnt reach the impact cap. Told me how to fix it with PC-7 (I think) and leather paint. Hopefully theyll fix yours or give you a refund. Best of luck and stay safe.
    I fully expect any company out there to fully investigate warranty claims and make decisions when need be to not be liabl due to user negligence. This keeps them from paying out for warranties that they shouldn't have to cover. Good business practice.

    However, after seeing these 4 instances of the exact same thing I feel like this is an issue Phenix needs to address. I honestly don't know if gluing a plastic liner to a leather shell is the best design. I do not know a whole lot of people with TL-2s who have seen a lot of fire. Most seem to be worn every now and then. Like I said, the guy I sold mine to is having the same issue and the helmet has seen virtually no fire since repair.

    Looking forward to Phenix's reply to this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtvfr6 View Post
    Just to give you a heads up, they'll try and pick apart your story due to the pictures. My TL2 has started to seperate just like yours has, just not that bad (mine has seperated about an inch and is definitley noticeable). They will look at the nomex earflaps and the tetrahedrons in your picture and tell you that you did get it too hot, trying to discredit your story. Now, I believe the helmet should hold up a lot better than that especially if you see a lot of fire and want a long lasting leather. My TL2 was involved in a magnesium explosion earlier this year which took a chunk about the size of a penny out of the top part of my lid. I emailed Phenix, and Shaun Russell called me and said the helmet was still fine because it didnt reach the impact cap. Told me how to fix it with PC-7 (I think) and leather paint. Hopefully theyll fix yours or give you a refund. Best of luck and stay safe.
    Thanks for the heads up. I really feel like this may be an issue with the design more than anything. My helmet looked almost exactly the same as it does now before the fire with the exception of the deformation. I don't know if it was the repeated exposures or what but up to this point I have even had the Phenix in hotter spots than I was in there without issue. I know I have no way of proving it but I'm almost 100% sure there was no way THIS fire caused this because of the heat. It has to be something with the glue not holding correctly over time.

    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    I fully expect any company out there to fully investigate warranty claims and make decisions when need be to not be liabl due to user negligence. This keeps them from paying out for warranties that they shouldn't have to cover. Good business practice.

    However, after seeing these 4 instances of the exact same thing I feel like this is an issue Phenix needs to address. I honestly don't know if gluing a plastic liner to a leather shell is the best design. I do not know a whole lot of people with TL-2s who have seen a lot of fire. Most seem to be worn every now and then. Like I said, the guy I sold mine to is having the same issue and the helmet has seen virtually no fire since repair.

    Looking forward to Phenix's reply to this.
    Yeah I don't expect them to just say here is a new helmet. If they just threw out new helmets all the time then they would be out of business. But like you said, with the instances we know about and all the fireman that may have had them that aren't on this forum for us to know about, it needs to be looked into for sure. I could see if I was caught in a flashover or something, I would expect severe damage but not from something most of us would call a routine fire. I would never in a million years expect to see the damage I saw, I didn't even notice until I was back at the station spraying it off.
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    I've had my TL2 since December of 2009. I'm at one of the busiest stations in the state and it's seen a good number of fires, especially this year. Mine hasn't discolored hardly at all compared to yours. I DO however have a very small amount of seperation of the liner from the leather. I think a manufacturing fix would be to have the stitching from the top cap of the helmet the connects to the brim, come down through the rim of the plastic liner and lock it in place. Doesn't seem like it would be too hard to do.

    I went to college station this year for refinery school on one of the local refinery's dime, (they were cool enough to send myself and another fire captain from my department as the refinery is in my first in district). I took both my TL2 and my department issued tupperware. I wasn't sure what I'd wear until I knew what kind of fuel was being used on the props. It turned out it was propane so I wore the TL2 for the entire week of burns. It worked great and other than getting soaked all the way through the leather it was still great and I got tons of questions about it from everybody. They really liked the look of it.

    Also, if you ever want to reshape the TL2, just get it REALLY wet. You can shape that brim very easily and when it dries even a little it will hold the new shape very nicely.

    Good luck with you helmet. I hope they make it right with you.

    Happy Holidays all and stay safe!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by SLCfireguy View Post
    I've had my TL2 since December of 2009. I'm at one of the busiest stations in the state and it's seen a good number of fires, especially this year. Mine hasn't discolored hardly at all compared to yours. I DO however have a very small amount of seperation of the liner from the leather. I think a manufacturing fix would be to have the stitching from the top cap of the helmet the connects to the brim, come down through the rim of the plastic liner and lock it in place. Doesn't seem like it would be too hard to do.

    I went to college station this year for refinery school on one of the local refinery's dime, (they were cool enough to send myself and another fire captain from my department as the refinery is in my first in district). I took both my TL2 and my department issued tupperware. I wasn't sure what I'd wear until I knew what kind of fuel was being used on the props. It turned out it was propane so I wore the TL2 for the entire week of burns. It worked great and other than getting soaked all the way through the leather it was still great and I got tons of questions about it from everybody. They really liked the look of it.

    Also, if you ever want to reshape the TL2, just get it REALLY wet. You can shape that brim very easily and when it dries even a little it will hold the new shape very nicely.

    Good luck with you helmet. I hope they make it right with you.

    Happy Holidays all and stay safe!!
    Thanks man, same to you!

    Good news, today I was talking with Shaun at Phenix and he said it looked like the back of the helmet had gotten quite a bit of heat but seen no reason why they would have any issues with a warranty fix. Awesome. They are going to be reusing the chinstrap, liner, and bourkes and replace the shell, eagle and earlaps. He said that they should be able to get it fixed and headed back my way sometime next week which in my opinion is pretty good turn around considering Thanksgiving and the fact they still have to fix it. Class A bunch working for Phenix. I recommended this helmet to several other firemen and was a little concerned with the issue I had, but we all know that as much as we can try and take care of our equipment things can happen whether it is our fault or a design issue. Either way, the fact they are willing to make it right says alot about them in my opinion. It would have been really easy to just say it was my fault (even though I would disagree) and forget about it.I can't wait to get it back and wear it again, and a big thanks to anyone from Phenix that may read this!

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    Good news, I am glad they are taking care of you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

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    I have been a Cairns Leatherhead for a long long time. What do they say about tradition? Be that as it may I am looking to buy a new leather and have been reading these reviews with a keen intrest in the Phenix TL 1500. I have a number of questions Hope some Brother or Sister can help.

    What makes this helmet differeant from the Cairns? Better quality? Better leather? Lighter and better fitting? etc.

    How is the balance? My Cairns although heavy than a G5 is so nicely balanced it doesnt seem like it weighs anything when on my head.

    How is the leather holding up? I read older posts about the leather wrinkling and such.

    How low does it ride? I like my helmets to ride just the same as the old G5's and dont want one that rides high like the conway or the tupperware my department issues.

    I have read about the flexibility of the brim have any Brothers or Sisters had any problems with the brim being too flexible? (if there is such a thing)

    How well does the brim hold up? My Cairns brim is cracked and it starting to chip off the wire (why im replacing it)

    What suspension system is better the ratchet or the velcro strap?

    How accurate is the sizing? Has anyone experienced problems with the size of their helmet?

    My current Cairns Sam Houston has been with me for over 12 years, been beaten on, repainted and such, I havent had any problems with it at all and am hard pressed not to purchase another one but everything I've heard from other using Cairns since MSA took over makes me wonder if I should try something new.

    Thanks All Stay Safe
    Paul

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    Well, just to update. I got the helmet back today looking like new, minus the patch and bourkes. Nothing but good things to say about Phenix and their customer service. Repaired the helmet and paid shipping both ways. Only thing it cost me was 8 bucks to get my black tets back. They had to put on yellow to keep the NFPA rating. Thanks again to Phenix.

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    New announcement from Phenix Fire Helmets
    http://myemail.constantcontact.com/B...id=zJWFDEb-UiU

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    sweet!!!!!!!!!
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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    I REALLY want a Miller, but I don't think my department would let me wear it. So for now, still in waiting for The Fire Store to deliver my TL2. Four weeks and counting!!!

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    I'm guessing painting a TL2 is out of the question? I'd buy a used one, but I need a custom color.

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    You can repaint, or Phenix can do it for you.
    "I am an aggressive firefighter, and that is not an apology."

    FTM-PTB-RFB-EGH-KTF

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    Phenix Annual Survey

    If you have a second please fill out this survey at the link below we always like to here what our customers have to say.

    http://survey.constantcontact.com/su...hku5q7sm/start

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    Figured I'd wipe the dust of this thread to say that thanks to all the positive comments and stories I've read through these 35 pages, I've finally decided to bite the bullet and ordered a TL2 through Jason at JB rescue. He was good to work with and beat any other price. This will be my first leather and I hope it meets all my expectations.
    ColoradoDave and Calphenix1 like this.

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    Enjoy and welcome to the wonderful world of being a Leatherhead. At first I had some concerns over the flexibility of the brim, but I've caught a decent amount of work and taken a few shots to the dome with it on and it has held up beautifully. I'll never go back to Cairns.
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    Thanks, I'm pretty excited to finally get one. Too bad I was told it'll take at least 10-12 weeks, it'll be a rough wait.
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    I am glad to see the good reports. Maybe they have changed, or mine was a lemon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

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    [IMG][/IMG]

    [IMG][/IMG]

    Lets keep the photos coming.... Heres two photos of my Phenix I just recently bought.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmckeever View Post
    I have been a Cairns Leatherhead for a long long time. What do they say about tradition? Be that as it may I am looking to buy a new leather and have been reading these reviews with a keen intrest in the Phenix TL 1500. I have a number of questions Hope some Brother or Sister can help.

    What makes this helmet differeant from the Cairns? Better quality? Better leather? Lighter and better fitting? etc.

    How is the balance? My Cairns although heavy than a G5 is so nicely balanced it doesnt seem like it weighs anything when on my head.

    How is the leather holding up? I read older posts about the leather wrinkling and such.

    How low does it ride? I like my helmets to ride just the same as the old G5's and dont want one that rides high like the conway or the tupperware my department issues.

    I have read about the flexibility of the brim have any Brothers or Sisters had any problems with the brim being too flexible? (if there is such a thing)

    How well does the brim hold up? My Cairns brim is cracked and it starting to chip off the wire (why im replacing it)

    What suspension system is better the ratchet or the velcro strap?

    How accurate is the sizing? Has anyone experienced problems with the size of their helmet?

    My current Cairns Sam Houston has been with me for over 12 years, been beaten on, repainted and such, I havent had any problems with it at all and am hard pressed not to purchase another one but everything I've heard from other using Cairns since MSA took over makes me wonder if I should try something new.

    Thanks All Stay Safe
    Paul
    Paul,

    Ill try to answer your questions the best I can.

    I would say the Phenix TL2 is a whole lot lighter than the Cairns. I believe the TL2 weights about 55 oz. I wouldn't say one leather is better than another. From what I understand Cairns uses resin to harden their leather and Phenix uses Veg tanning. I'm by no means an expert on either one. I know my Dept. is having issues with Cairns that were bought about 5 years ago. The leather is starting to crack and break off. One of the other Dept. in my county bought Phenix TL2's about the same time and have had zero issues with them and recently wore them in training burns and a flashover simulator with no problems at all.

    The TL2 is adjustable to almost any size head. The suspension is much like that of a hard hat. You can call Phenix and have them make you a custom helmet if your head is overly large or super small. The ride is also adjustable for depth. I like mine to ride very low on my head so my ears almost touch the brim. The TL2 is extremely well balanced wearing the helmet by its self and with an SCBA mask (well at least with Scott brand... I don't know about other brands.)

    Like I mentioned earlier, another dept. in my area has had zero problems with the leather shrinking or such even in high temp training fires. I was worried about the flexible brim also when I first received my TL2 just for the fact that I was use to Cairns which didn't flex at all... but haven't seen any problems with it.

    Overall I'm very happy that I switched to Phenix. Ill never buy another MSA/ Cairns. Cairns isn't what it once was.
    BFrank326 likes this.

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    I'll be sure to post a picture or two along with my first impression of the lid once I receive mine. Hope to hear more from others who have had it for a few years, I wish a Happy & Safe New Year to all you brothers out there.

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    I talked to Jason from JbRescue and him and I had a nice chat . However, I found a phenix leather helmet for a much less price of about 150 to 200 dollars at advancedtechrescue.com. Found the helmet for $414.06 ($434 with shipping). Note that this helmet became so popular that shipping will now take around 30 weeks...but it's worth the wait! I just purchased mine last week...I'll post picture of mine when I get it. I got the natural leather helmet.

    OH! and if you ask about natural leather (since it's not in the options of colors) just give them a call and they'll give it to ya for free! Great customer service too. Just a long wait...

    I hope this helps!

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