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  1. #201
    MembersZone Subscriber ChiefReason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chief310
    BTW, even if my application is ever funded, I still won't be comfortable with the program, but I'll learn to live with that.
    In the famous words of E229LT: "Bing-freaking-O!"
    They say that we all have a twin somewhere. I think mine is in Ohio.

    I'll ride any truck that pumps to a fire. PPE and SCBA are the most important thing to me as an active firefighter.
    So, why don't we just buy new pumps to put into existing trucks and stop funding new trucks?
    PPE and SCBA are the most important things? Which is exactly what we have been requesting for the last four years.
    Large departments are being handed money because 90 percent of their budget is salaries. That leaves 10 percent for everything else. So, they can't afford equipment because pay eats up their budget. They are more likely to get funded for just about any project they choose.
    But a small department that pays their people nothing and operates on a budget of less than 20,000 dollars, meaning that they can't afford to pay their folks OR buy equipment will get turned down, because they are too small, have far fewer runs and can't write a decent grant app. They have NEVER had a "short term fix".
    There is this belief that the money should go to the greater good; get the most bang for the buck. Tell that to the little department that had ONE fire in the year, where their truck took a **** and someone in the house died. That is about as "local" as it gets.
    I have read the stories where the reviewers got really emotional about the small departments struggling/fighting to stay open, only to slam the door on them with a DJ.
    You're right, Brian. This should never be a welfare program, but it's funny that you keep referring to it. You believe that anything short of what we got would be a welfare program and not a grant program. I don't believe that it's either. I believe that it is an entitlement program. If you are sharp enough to read through the nuances of the program, swag your numbers into "fooling" the computer, jerking a tear out of the reviewer, checking the mirror to make sure you have your politician has juice; then, you are "entitled" to the money.
    Let me ask you a question: how many of the larger departments that have been awarded in the past two years have also received additional money through the DHS anti-terrorism task force funding? How many of those same departments have so much equipment now that they have to rent storage for it all? You believe that that is different? It's not TAX MONEY? Our tax money?
    We're going to take your tax money and spend it for you. We're not going to spend it on YOU, but we are going to spend it where the EAVs are 15 times higher than your's are and you should feel like a real team player.
    Put me in Coach.
    CR
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    Remember Bradley Golden (9/25/01)
    RIP HOF Robert J. Compton(ENG6511)


  2. #202
    Forum Member islandfire03's Avatar
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    Let me ask a question of the Gurus > rural volunteer depts. Given equal annual budgets, similar call volumes, # of members.
    If Dept. "A" has worked hard in saving up enough money from pot luck suppers and pie sales to fund an engine in 2000 to replace a 1958 model, but still has a need to replace a 1983 mini attack / brush truck that is their only piece with 4 wheel drive. Because they have used the majority of cash reserves to purchase the new 2000 pumper with cafs , the ability to fund a new brush truck has been put off several years already. They apply for a new truck and write a proposal to the specs provided by AFG , & don't make it past the computer. Are they being penalized because of fiscal responsibility in the past?

    Dept "B" Has spent their recent budgets buying lots of 700 dollar handhelds and leather fire boots for all but has not upgraded their apparatus so that their average age is 20 plus
    years old. They apply for and are awarded an AFG for a 300 k plus pumper.

    Now I won't argue that there is a need to replace "B's" front line engine which should have been replaced years ago, but the same argument can be made for dept. "A's request which is their most pressing need in their long term planning.
    How can the computers accurately score all the issues based on a set of numbers entered into a form.
    This is not meant as a sour grapes bit#h , just trying to better understand the criteria needed to be successful in the future.

  3. #203
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    The 2000 pumper wouldn't affect the brush truck app, I've funded a few of those in similar conditions as A for brush trucks and tankers. So it is most likely something else. Normally lower call volume in the area which the truck is meant to respond, in this case brush fires. That is certainly an area which could use improvement, or at least further clarification. I know several of the wildland zone folks don't answer a large quantity of brush fires. But they lasted for days and beat the crap out of the FFs and equipment.

    Art, don't be putting words in my mouth there. I never said anything less than what we have would be welfare. I just want to improve the program with a purpose of actually making improvements, not just handing out money to everyone. Take your claim that the richest dept in IL got awarded. So that would mean 1 dept out of the 56 announced so far from the outside doesn't appear to have a need? That's the subjective vs objective I'm talking about. Are they rich because of a large budget? New fleet including a gaggle of chief's cars? All new PPE, SCBA, hose, etc? If so then I'd agree they probably don't have much of a need for a grant. But the program is completely flawed because 1 out of 56 slipped through? I don't buy that, not with the success stories that have come out through Dr Carter's Road Trip, the small trickle from DHS, and the pile I've worked on. When I have a department with a $3000/year budget, 25 FFs, and 1 set of structural PPE get awarded in the 1st round you can't tell me the program isn't hitting it's target. Perfect? Not on this Earth. But out of 5000 awards if 100 that appear to be 'wrong' from the outside I'd say that it's working pretty well. Just because it doesn't fund everyone doesn't mean it isn't working. I can't sit here and explain why 1 single award came through without seeing the application. I'm still working on why some of the departments I worked on that got denied when others in similar situations were awarded early. Helps me give better direction on next year's apps. Nerd thing.

    Tear jerking is out too, I haven't found a Peer Reviewer yet that tear-jerking worked on. After reading 100+ sob stories a day it's numbing. 'Matter of fact' writing wins more.

  4. #204
    Forum Member islandfire03's Avatar
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    And one more thought : If this program is supposed to be {APOLITICAL} Is it only my observation , or are others seeing a large percentage of apparatus grants going to
    "Red "states ?

    Don't take this wrong ,I'm not trying to start a political war with this question.

  5. #205
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    Coincidence. Law of averages really; in other years more went to blue states. Same reach as claiming that PA got more awards because Tom Ridge was governor before becoming head of DHS. PA gets more awards because PA has more FDs applying consistently than any other.

  6. #206
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    Default Fire Welfare

    Welfare or not, it should not matter. We subsidize and support everything from farmers, big business, to defense contractors and brick and big healthcare.

    AFG is nowhere as large of a program as some of the support we give the private sector. It seems like alot of money to us but is a drop in the bucket compared to other lines in the Fed budget.

    We count as infrastructure for our communities, states and the whole US. We have been neglected for years. Whatever helps us, helps the whole country.

    We do not even look at the economic boon this program gives to fire related equipment manufacturers. Think about how much of a benefit they have gotten in the last few years. How many new skilled employees have they hired or trained?

    A trickle down thing. . .

    Keep it going, Helping us, helps America in oh so many ways.

  7. #207
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    Default oops

    meant to say big brick and mortar healthcare but the dog wanted to come in so I lost the train of thought.

  8. #208
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    On that note, I see a pile of grants in the grants.gov notification email I think we could do without. Like $13 mil in drought prevention in Indonesia. I think we have drought problems here every now and again. Millions go overseas that should be staying here.

  9. #209
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    From the input I am getting. We should have asked for SCBA s to replace our well mantained but offically "non compliant" average 8 year old ones. A high priced gear extractor to replace the old but still functioning Maytag that we bought for 20.00 --- along with the request for 15 sets of bunker gear to replace our 11 to 15 year old gear -, some of which was hand me down. And I guess I hurt myself on not asking for wildland gear even though most if not all our wildland fires last less than 4 hours. I had this funny notion of asking for what we just absolutley HAD to have. Shoulda thrown some want in with those needs, cleverly disguised as needs also.

  10. #210
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    You are all missing the main point of the AFG program. It's not what YOU need, it's what the government thinks you need. That's what is most important to them.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  11. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC79er
    On that note, I see a pile of grants in the grants.gov notification email I think we could do without. Like $13 mil in drought prevention in Indonesia. I think we have drought problems here every now and again. Millions go overseas that should be staying here.
    Did I hear the sound of another can of worms opening? I agree with you 100%. It's probably a good thing we don't know where a lot of our tax money goes to.

  12. #212
    Forum Member islandfire03's Avatar
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    Did anyone else notice that St. Elmo minn. received a 1 million $ grant for equipment? I would really be interested in reading that application, cause they obviously have figured out the system. Wow 1 mil is about 12 years of our total budget. congrats to them.

  13. #213
    MembersZone Subscriber ktb9780's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by islandfire03
    Did anyone else notice that St. Elmo minn. received a 1 million $ grant for equipment? I would really be interested in reading that application, cause they obviously have figured out the system. Wow 1 mil is about 12 years of our total budget. congrats to them.
    I would highly suspect that they won a regional interoperable type grant for standardization of SCBA or communications. It does not take many departments to add up to $1 mill. The award would only state the "host agency "awarded but, not detail that it was a "regional" application that was awarded.
    Kurt Bradley
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    "Never Trade Skill for Luck"

  14. #214
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    Thumbs down

    We got the news today! Well, at least we don't have to wait any longer.

  15. #215
    MembersZone Subscriber ktb9780's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jspires1
    We got the news today! Well, at least we don't have to wait any longer.
    What was the date on your DJ guy?
    Kurt Bradley
    Public Safety Grants Consultant

    "Never Trade Skill for Luck"

  16. #216
    Forum Member Fortsutphen's Avatar
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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by ktb9780
    What was the date on your DJ guy?

    This has nothing to do with the listed quote. Our department is very new to this program. Infact this is the first year we have applied for anything other than a state grant. We did receive a CDEP grant earlier this year. We also have received a DJ on our safer grant. My question is we have yet to receive the 10 questions, 1099 update or a DJ for the AFG, any idea were we are going to land on this ? Anyone have any ideas ? Thanks. I have learned a ton of info here. Hopefully I'll be attending the grant seminar by Kurt in January here in PA. Look forward to meeting some of.

  17. #217
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    At this point it's closer to a 50-50 shot judging by the numbers that are left with no notifications at all. Info is minimal to none coming from DHS about timing of anything so we're all in hurry up and wait mode. Nothing new went out yesterday as far as I can tell, but with 50+ logins still to check and 70 apps already in progress for 2007 I don't have as much time to spend snipe hunting as I did before.

    I'm relying on the hope that the few hundred folks in here don't get tired of checking their handful of apps and post news so I can go check all of mine. I know Chris and Earl are good for at least 5-6 checks a day.

  18. #218
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    Sorry Brian, I'm out of apps to check for about 2 months when i clog the RKB system. That's one of the nice things about a Round 1 AFG award. (offset, of course, by an early SAFER DJ)

    earl

  19. #219
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    Still hoping and praying for our SAFER... No DJ or anything (1199a) yet, and although I have stopped the checking 5-6 times a day thing, I still have been looking for our updated 1199. Still over 41 million in SAFER to award, and I still hope we are there n the running!!!

  20. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC79er
    At this point it's closer to a 50-50 shot judging by the numbers that are left with no notifications at all. Info is minimal to none coming from DHS about timing of anything so we're all in hurry up and wait mode. Nothing new went out yesterday as far as I can tell, but with 50+ logins still to check and 70 apps already in progress for 2007 I don't have as much time to spend snipe hunting as I did before.

    I'm relying on the hope that the few hundred folks in here don't get tired of checking their handful of apps and post news so I can go check all of mine. I know Chris and Earl are good for at least 5-6 checks a day.
    Yep.... Still awaiting BIG regional grant and notification after 10q's/11-99 so I am averaging around 5 checks a day, not to mention checking RKB even though I know nothing is happening.
    Chris
    Last edited by AFD2181; 11-29-2006 at 07:53 PM.

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