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  1. #1
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    Default gasoline tanker fies

    Does anyone know of any videos or dvds that are out there on how to deal with gasoline tanker fires and the boilover that sometimes happens? Trying to work up a training program for 1400 firefighters on what and what not to do. Everybody wants to put water on 9000 gallons of gasoline.


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    Houston fire Department has/had an awesome program that they ran some people through. It focuses on cooling/sweeping the overhead (the area directly above the the fire) and cooling the the tank and trucks. Believe it or not the fire in the tank can dwindle down to about 6" off of the surface and you use very little foam for extinguishment. We actually used less that 5 gallons of foam concentrate on one of our scenarios. I remember doing some of this back in the early 80's but it went by the wayside for reasons unknown but I will tell you that it works for most of the tanker fires (as long as you have water) and if it is done right you will not get a boilover.

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    Hotjob

    need to ask you a question

    where and when have you heard of a DOT 406 Gasoline tanker haveing a "boil over"?
    If you have any informaiton on this I would like to see it.
    As I have been to a lot of tanker Incidents All DOT classes of trailers including DOT 406 on fire and not on fire and I have yet to see one "boil over"

    I would like to help you with this, so if you have any informaiton on this please advise and then we can go from there

    Thanks and be safe out there
    MC

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    oldandwise071

    if you can remember the instructor(s) of the class in Houston would you send me that information as I work with a lot of the Houston Haz Mat guys and they may know something about the training class

    Thanks and be safe out there
    MC

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    "Boiling over" would be pretty much impossible. That only happens on your kitchen stove. What they WILL do is build up pressure inside due to the fuel being boiled by the heat of the fire under the tank. Fuel boils, turns to vapor, pressure increases. The result you are probably thinking of is a BLEVE (blev-ee). Boiling Liquid Expanding Vapor Explosion.

    Eventually, the tank will get to a point where it can't handle the pressure anymore. The weakest part of the tank will fail catastrophically and all the vapor and liquid fuel blows out in a spectacular explosion that can be seen from the space station. This is a very simplified explanation, do a search on the forum for BLEVE and you'll gain a wealth of knowledge.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

  6. #6
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    Default First we must understand the term “boil over”

    mmfire
    Thanks for this but you need a little more information and training.
    Boilovers do happen and not only on the stove!
    And it is not a BLEVE.


    First we must understand the term “boil over” when it comes to tanks.

    The Term "Boil over" is used to identify the reacton when a buring tank wall and product heat up during the fire to cause the water trapped in the bottom of storage tanks to heat up and "boil over"

    Normally in storage tanks in long term use that have not been cleaned or naturally have a water accumulation in the process (i.e. crude oil).
    The long burning fire causes heat to transfer down the fuel layer and tank wall to heat up the water trapped in the bottom of the tank.
    When the water in the bottom of the tank reaches its boiling temperature it expands 1700 times causing a boil over. Which can and has blown product over a wide area and likened by survivors as a wave of burning product coming at them.

    Several years ago two U. S. Air Force fire firghters were killed with a tank "boilover and trapped them in there crash truck. I believe that happened in Oklahoma.

    With MC 306 / Dot406 Gasoline tankers there will be minimal if any water in the bottom of the tank
    Most gasoline tankers are emptied and refilled at least once a day if not more.
    Also the MC 306 / DOT 406 are unloaded from the bottom.
    If there is any water trapped in the tank then it goes into the fuel storage tanks at the Gas Station


    Now if the fire department trying to extinguish the fire used an excessive amount of water and did so in an way which caused water to accumulate with in the tanker while it was burning then you may have a boil over in a gasoline tanker. But this is hard to believe.

    But remember that most if not all of the gasoline tankers MC 306 and DOT 406 are now made out of aluminum; with shells about 1/8 inch thick
    Which when on fire melts at the level of the product burning.
    NFPA has a video on Fire Fighter Safety and survival which shows a fire Department fighting a gasoline tanker fire and it shows how the fire progressed in melting the aluminum shell.
    So what happens is that the tank wall melts down causing liquid to spill out or during the wreck the wall is damaged thus causing a failure of the wall during the fire.


    Now back to my point in the first post if you have information on a MC 306 / DOT 406 "boiling over" and not just the tank wall melting down then please pass on the information

    Thanks and be safe out there
    MC
    "We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -Benjamin Franklin

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    MCarpenter,
    The instructors names are Bill Hand and Tommy Erickson. Both are retired but are still around. Bill is with Harris County Hazmat now 281-852-3951. Tommy teaches everywhere so here is e-mail: taehfd@aol.com .

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    Interesting. I've never once heard of that term or that phenomenon. I just assumed he was referring to a BLEVE when he said "boil over". I'll add this to my list of calls to drive in the opposite direction of upon dispatch.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Oldandwise

    Thanks
    I know and work with both of those fine Haz Mat Leaders.
    I will call and see if they have the program.

    Thanks for the information
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -Benjamin Franklin

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by MCarpenter View Post
    mmfire
    Thanks for this but you need a little more information and training.
    Boilovers do happen and not only on the stove!
    And it is not a BLEVE.


    First we must understand the term “boil over” when it comes to tanks.

    The Term "Boil over" is used to identify the reacton when a buring tank wall and product heat up during the fire to cause the water trapped in the bottom of storage tanks to heat up and "boil over"

    Normally in storage tanks in long term use that have not been cleaned or naturally have a water accumulation in the process (i.e. crude oil).
    The long burning fire causes heat to transfer down the fuel layer and tank wall to heat up the water trapped in the bottom of the tank.
    When the water in the bottom of the tank reaches its boiling temperature it expands 1700 times causing a boil over. Which can and has blown product over a wide area and likened by survivors as a wave of burning product coming at them.

    Several years ago two U. S. Air Force fire firghters were killed with a tank "boilover and trapped them in there crash truck. I believe that happened in Oklahoma.

    With MC 306 / Dot406 Gasoline tankers there will be minimal if any water in the bottom of the tank
    Most gasoline tankers are emptied and refilled at least once a day if not more.
    Also the MC 306 / DOT 406 are unloaded from the bottom.
    If there is any water trapped in the tank then it goes into the fuel storage tanks at the Gas Station


    Now if the fire department trying to extinguish the fire used an excessive amount of water and did so in an way which caused water to accumulate with in the tanker while it was burning then you may have a boil over in a gasoline tanker. But this is hard to believe.

    But remember that most if not all of the gasoline tankers MC 306 and DOT 406 are now made out of aluminum; with shells about 1/8 inch thick
    Which when on fire melts at the level of the product burning.
    NFPA has a video on Fire Fighter Safety and survival which shows a fire Department fighting a gasoline tanker fire and it shows how the fire progressed in melting the aluminum shell.
    So what happens is that the tank wall melts down causing liquid to spill out or during the wreck the wall is damaged thus causing a failure of the wall during the fire.


    Now back to my point in the first post if you have information on a MC 306 / DOT 406 "boiling over" and not just the tank wall melting down then please pass on the information

    Thanks and be safe out there
    MC
    "We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -Benjamin Franklin





    Yep MCarpenter is correct……. A majority of your gasoline hauling MC306/DOT 406 are constructed out of Aluminum alloy with specified material thicknesses set forth by DOT. Most SHOULD melt…….


    I remember seeing the video of a gasoline tanker on fire in Asia somewhere that BLEVED……. I think most who say they will use this video in the argument, but remember…. DOT sets the standards and regulations on how packages/containers,etc are to be made and designed in the United States......... for the right reasons!

    Also…. A few months ago my station responded to a truck fire, a rock hauler with the tractor fully involved….. Some of the guys remarked how on the saddle tanks, the tops had melted, I wondered if the manufactures are now constructing the top half of the tanks of aluminum? Has anyone seen this or have any info on it! One guy remarked how you could actually see where the tank was brazed together across the top half…….. Don’t know?

  11. #11
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    Clariant ERT

    Also…. A few months ago my station responded to a truck fire, a rock hauler with the tractor fully involved….. Some of the guys remarked how on the saddle tanks, the tops had melted, I wondered if the manufactures are now constructing the top half of the tanks of aluminum? Has anyone seen this or have any info on it! One guy remarked how you could actually see where the tank was brazed together across the top half…….. Don’t know?.

    All of the fuel tanks are now made of Aluminum, I have a lot of Photos of the fuel tanks melting during a fire, if you had to transfer the fuel and was not able to get to the cap you can cut into it with just about anything, I have Used an Axe, drill with hole saw.

    Most of the fuel tanks hold 120 gallons and some are now made to hold up to 200 gallons each.
    Makes for a good fire or clean up.

    Be safe out there
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." -Benjamin Franklin

  12. #12
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    Appreciate that MCarpenter….. Good info to know!

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    There is a book that I acquired called "Gasoline Tank Truck Emergencies, Guidelines and Procedures" by Hildebrand and Noll that I found very informative on the general topic of 306/406 emergencies. It doesn't deal with burning tankers that much, but it was still the single best resource I found on the topic.

    This is an important topic because gasoline makes up 50% or more of all truck-transported hazardous materials in North America

    I'd love to track down a good resource for handling burning tankers - I imagine that the flammable liquid gurus from the oil industry FD's would be pretty versed in this type of firefighting.

    Stephan Kesting
    Delta Fire Department.

  14. #14
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    I think I found the NFPA video that was being talked about above: http://www.nfpa.org/catalog/product....%5Ftype=search

    $519 for a 22 minute VHS video.

    Wow!

    Stephan Kesting
    Delta Fire Department

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