1. #1
    Truckie
    SPFDRum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 1999
    Location
    St Paul, MN
    Posts
    2,516

    Default Well now, socialism here we come;

    I bet the Pelosis', Kerry's, Clinton's, Kennedy's, and the whole lot have to be real proud of this:
    European Socialists eager to work with U.S. Democrats
    Thu Dec 7, 2006 3:43pm ET144

    OPORTO, Portugal (Reuters) - European Socialists promised on Thursday to work to rebuild Europe's strategic alliance with the United States now that the Democrats control Congress after last month's elections.

    Socialist leaders attending a meeting of the European Socialist Party pledged that with the Democrats on the rise, strong ties could be renewed with the United States after years of cool relations with Republican President George W. Bush.

    Howard Dean, chairman of the national committee of the U.S. Democratic Party, is attending the two-day conference together with the leaders of leftist governments of several countries and party leaders from across Europe.

    "We are not anti-American, we want the real America, your America," former Danish Prime Minister Poul Nyrup Rasmussen, president of the European Socialist Party, said in remarks directed at Dean.

    The Democrats gained control of both houses of Congress for the first time since 1994 in the mid-term elections, reshaping the political landscape ahead of the 2008 presidential race.

    "Europe needs an America that is back on track," said Portuguese Socialist Prime Minister Jose Socrates, whose country is hosting the meeting.

    "We need, today more than ever, to reinforce and renew the strategic alliance between the United States and Europe," Socrates said. "We know that a stronger Democratic Party is key for this to happen."

    Socialists, or centre-left governments, currently hold or share power in just over half of Europe.

    Many European governments, not just Socialist ones, have above all been angered by Bush's war in Iraq and what has been seen as the U.S. failure to work with allies in international affairs.

    They expressed hopes after last month's election for a new era of open dialogue on a more equal footing with Washington and the Bush administration during the final two years of his presidency.

    Socrates said Dean's Democrats "should know that they can count on European Socialists" for support.
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
    "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
    George Mason
    Co-author of the Second Amendment
    during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788
    Elevator Rescue Information

  2. #2
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    ohio
    Posts
    464

    Default

    Europe needs a Europe that's on track.

  3. #3
    Forum Member
    DaSharkie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Posts
    4,713

    Default

    Socialism is giving the government all of your rights, money, liberties, freedoms, and choices......

    And the government doing nothing but want more of them.


    This is what Ted Kennedy, Barbara Boxer, Howard Dean, Michael Moore, Jimmy Carter, and the whole lot of them want.

    Socialism is doomed to fail. When Europe can be Socialist and show us that it works (France's riots anyone?) then I might give it a thought.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

  4. #4
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Memphis Tn,USA-now
    Posts
    5,436

    Default

    I don't often agree with you Dasharkie,but this time I do.When a working socialist society can be raised and not fail after 75 years(USSR again,anyone?),then maybe those that support that idea can go live there first before trying it here.

  5. #5
    Forum Member
    DaSharkie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Posts
    4,713

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by doughesson
    I don't often agree with you Dasharkie,but this time I do.When a working socialist society can be raised and not fail after 75 years(USSR again,anyone?),then maybe those that support that idea can go live there first before trying it here.
    There is a difference (albeit minor) between Socialism and Communism.

    Both are bound to fail. I distrust much of Europe and their eutopian view of how everything should be and their criticism of how our great Republic is run.

    We have our issues, but like I said - show me that it can work then I will consider. Every Socialist country in Europe has glaring failures in how they do things - yet they espouse how great it is.


    And the European Union is doomed to fail, it is only a matter of time. Yet many nations will ride it to the very end thinking that it is the best idea to ever come along.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

  6. #6
    Forum Member
    jlcooke3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Aiken, SC
    Posts
    438

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie
    And the European Union is doomed to fail, it is only a matter of time. Yet many nations will ride it to the very end thinking that it is the best idea to ever come along.
    European countries have a history of sticking their head in the sand, hoping to ignore the problems going on around them (WWI & WWII come to mind). Of course all they ever get is buggered from behind.

  7. #7
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    21

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum
    I bet the Pelosis', Kerry's, Clinton's, Kennedy's, and the whole lot have to be real proud of this:
    European Socialists eager to work with U.S. Democrats
    Thu Dec 7, 2006 3:43pm ET144

    OPORTO, Portugal (Reuters) - European Socialists promised on Thursday to work to rebuild Europe's strategic alliance with the United States now that the Democrats control Congress after last month's elections.

    Socialist leaders attending a meeting of the European Socialist Party pledged that with the Democrats on the rise, strong ties could be renewed with the United States after years of cool relations with Republican President George W. Bush.

    Howard Dean, chairman of the national committee of the U.S. Democratic Party, is attending the two-day conference together with the leaders of leftist governments of several countries and party leaders from across Europe.

    "We are not anti-American, we want the real America, your America," former Danish Prime Minister Poul Nyrup Rasmussen, president of the European Socialist Party, said in remarks directed at Dean.

    The Democrats gained control of both houses of Congress for the first time since 1994 in the mid-term elections, reshaping the political landscape ahead of the 2008 presidential race.

    "Europe needs an America that is back on track," said Portuguese Socialist Prime Minister Jose Socrates, whose country is hosting the meeting.

    "We need, today more than ever, to reinforce and renew the strategic alliance between the United States and Europe," Socrates said. "We know that a stronger Democratic Party is key for this to happen."

    Socialists, or centre-left governments, currently hold or share power in just over half of Europe.

    Many European governments, not just Socialist ones, have above all been angered by Bush's war in Iraq and what has been seen as the U.S. failure to work with allies in international affairs.

    They expressed hopes after last month's election for a new era of open dialogue on a more equal footing with Washington and the Bush administration during the final two years of his presidency.

    Socrates said Dean's Democrats "should know that they can count on European Socialists" for support.

    This is a perfect example of how Europe, Iran etc view the change in congress along with the new "Iraq Report" - they all view the US as weak and not having the stomach for war when it counts.

    Get ready...

  8. #8
    Forum Member
    scfire86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    HB
    Posts
    10,330

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by STONEREMS
    This is a perfect example of how Europe, Iran etc view the change in congress along with the new "Iraq Report" - they all view the US as weak and not having the stomach for war when it counts.

    Get ready...
    Their viewpoints don't matter. If congress steers too far to the left there is another election only 23 months away. It could just as easily turn back.

    If Americans are taking away their support of the war in Iraq one need only look at the top of the org chart. It's been mismanaged from the start. Anyone (including military personnel) who disagreed has been cashiered.

    We elected Bush. The buck stops with him. To coin a worn out phrase.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  9. #9
    Truckie
    SPFDRum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 1999
    Location
    St Paul, MN
    Posts
    2,516

    Default

    Yes, we did elect President Bush, and more recent, we just vote in a liberal majority.
    Sure, they had a big show of getting a study together, showing how weak we are and how we are loosing in Iraq. But is that main their focus, no. They would much rather go for the easy vote and grant immunity to all those illegals that broke the law to get here.
    Anyone (including military personnel) who disagreed has been cashiered.
    Really, what's your proof? The media, **** ant reservists and guard guys that have to earn their money, and are not at their reserve station, hanging at the nudie bar? Or the stories from real vets or the record numbers going into the Marines?
    Mismanaged? Read history. You really think all the conflicts have gone off with out a hitch? Lets review; Argonne Forest, Tarawa, Iwo Jima, Operation Market Garden to name a few.
    Is it mismanagement or bias reporting?
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
    "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
    George Mason
    Co-author of the Second Amendment
    during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788
    Elevator Rescue Information

  10. #10
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    21

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86
    Their viewpoints don't matter.
    Doesnt matter to whom? It will matter to the Americn people when we suffer another attack at the hands of extremeists(sp) who are empowered with the thought we have surrendered and left the fight.


    If congress steers too far to the left there is another election only 23 months away. It could just as easily turn back.
    A lot can happen in 23 months....

    If Americans are taking away their support of the war in Iraq one need only look at the top of the org chart. It's been mismanaged from the start. Anyone (including military personnel) who disagreed has been cashiered.
    Really? Who has been dismissed due to thier views on the war?

  11. #11
    Forum Member
    johnny46's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    2,094

    Default

    Give me comfort or give me death.

    wait...

  12. #12
    Forum Member
    scfire86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    HB
    Posts
    10,330

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by STONEREMS
    Doesnt matter to whom? It will matter to the Americn people when we suffer another attack at the hands of extremeists(sp) who are empowered with the thought we have surrendered and left the fight.
    And we'll face those problems like we've faced others in the past. The Taliban found out just how soft we were after 9/11. As have others. We just celebrated the anniversary of Pearl Harbor. Ask the Japanese how that worked out. We leave Iraq. So what? We're not going away. If anything, we took our eye off the ball by not pursuing Bin Laden. If the other side believes we have surrendered it is because they know we are easily distracted.

    Quote Originally Posted by STONEREMS
    A lot can happen in 23 months....
    A master of the obvious.

    Quote Originally Posted by STONEREMS
    Really? Who has been dismissed due to thier views on the war?
    Gen. Shinseki for one. Others who have been critical of Rumsfeld (aka Bush) have found themselves either criticized of relieved of command.
    Last edited by scfire86; 12-09-2006 at 01:01 PM.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  13. #13
    Forum Member
    jlcooke3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Aiken, SC
    Posts
    438

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86
    Their viewpoints don't matter.
    Maybe not to you but it does to propaganda mission. Those who wish to do evil things to America will use what appears (whether it is or isn't) to be a change in America's war policy as a sign of weakness. Terror groups will use it as a political victory to bolster their recruitment drives. Socialistic governments in Europe will view the change as a sign that their head in the sand, government programs can solve anything policies are correct and that everyone can live in peace BS.

    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86
    And we'll face those problems like we've faced others in the past. The Taliban found out just how soft we were after 9/11. As have others. We just celebrated the anniversary of Pearl Harbor. Ask the Japanese how that worked out. We leave Iraq. So what? We're not going away. If anything, we took our eye off the ball by not pursuing Bin Laden. If the other side believes we have surrendered it is because they know we are easily distracted.
    Let's not even try to compare WWII with the War on Terror. WWII and specifically the Pacific War was a war of hatred. Raw, unadulterated national hatred for another people. We as a nation simply wanted to destroy Japan. Completley and utterly. If our nation had the same stomach to do what it must to survive, if our people had the same stomach for war, the same hatred for a people as we did in 1941 we wouldn't be having this discussion. Carpet bombing, nuclear strikes, and collateral damage be damned tactics would have either wiped out the middle east or brought them to their knees. And we as a nation would be grateful that we as a nation did what had to be done to survive and prosper.

  14. #14
    Forum Member
    scfire86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    HB
    Posts
    10,330

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jlcooke3
    Maybe not to you but it does to propaganda mission. Those who wish to do evil things to America will use what appears (whether it is or isn't) to be a change in America's war policy as a sign of weakness. Terror groups will use it as a political victory to bolster their recruitment drives. Socialistic governments in Europe will view the change as a sign that their head in the sand, government programs can solve anything policies are correct and that everyone can live in peace BS.
    I guess I am past the point in my life where I cared what other people thought or wrote about me. The "propaganda mission" is not a sufficient reason for me to ask our nation's military personnel to risk life and limb.

    I'm just weird that way.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  15. #15
    Forum Member
    tbonetrexler's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Magnolia, Delaware US
    Posts
    527

    Arrow

    IMHO, socialism/communism is doomed to fail because of human nature.

    There are always people who want to be better than others, have better things, a better life and basically be greedy.

    Socialism (communism), IMHO, basically is everyone bieng equal and working together for the betterment of all.

    Human nature basically kills that idea before it can get off the ground.

    The USSR was not a true socialist state in my mind, because the common people were no better off than they were under the Czars.

    Sorry for the hijack, lol.

    If this was reversed and it was the European Facist Party (or any other right-wing group) talking about bettering ties with the American Republican party, it would still **** people off.
    Do a little dance, make a little rum, Italian Ice! Italian Ice!

    Actual lyric: Do a little dance, make a little love, get down tonight, get down tonight.
    (KC & The Sunshine Band "Do A Little Dance")

    My thoughts are mine alone and do not represent the thoughts of any Organization to which I am affiliated.

  16. #16
    Forum Member
    jlcooke3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Aiken, SC
    Posts
    438

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86
    I guess I am past the point in my life where I cared what other people thought or wrote about me. The "propaganda mission" is not a sufficient reason for me to ask our nation's military personnel to risk life and limb.

    I'm just weird that way.
    Whether you care or not is moot. Its not about you. Its about other's perceptions of the United States. If we as a soveriegn nation are thought of as weak or as an easy target. Then it does matter. How other nations, groups, society's, etc. percieve us (strong or weak) effects the way in which they deal with us and in turn how our government deals with them.

    And you are correct a "propaganda mission" is not sufficent reason, but the end results of those propaganda missions could very well be sufficient reason to wage war on someone i.e. terrorist training camps, weapons production, etc.

  17. #17
    Forum Member
    scfire86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    HB
    Posts
    10,330

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jlcooke3
    Whether you care or not is moot. Its not about you. Its about other's perceptions of the United States. If we as a soveriegn nation are thought of as weak or as an easy target. Then it does matter. How other nations, groups, society's, etc. percieve us (strong or weak) effects the way in which they deal with us and in turn how our government deals with them.
    And those who have those perceptions do so at their own peril.

    Quote Originally Posted by jlcooke3
    And you are correct a "propaganda mission" is not sufficent reason, but the end results of those propaganda missions could very well be sufficient reason to wage war on someone i.e. terrorist training camps, weapons production, etc.
    See above.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  18. #18
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    21

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86
    Gen. Shinseki for one. Others who have been critical of Rumsfeld (aka Bush) have found themselves either criticized of relieved of command.
    Well, I quickly read that link via my PDA and I did not see anyone "cashiered" as you put it - seems most of the Generals were all ready retired on their own accord(Batiste). In fact it says he didnt choose to speak out until after he retired. Now, it says Shinseki was retired early, however, he doesnt say it was because he spoke out directly. I guess it depends what you read in to it.

  19. #19
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    21

    Default

    [QUOTE=scfire86]A master of the obvious.
    QUOTE]


    You made i sound like it was around the corner.

    If congress steers too far to the left there is another election only 23 months away. It could just as easily turn back.

  20. #20
    Forum Member
    scfire86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    HB
    Posts
    10,330

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by STONEREMS
    Well, I quickly read that link via my PDA and I did not see anyone "cashiered" as you put it - seems most of the Generals were all ready retired on their own accord(Batiste). In fact it says he didnt choose to speak out until after he retired. Now, it says Shinseki was retired early, however, he doesnt say it was because he spoke out directly. I guess it depends what you read in to it.
    And that would be one way to look at it. Talk to folks in the military. They have a different perspective. Folks who disagreed with Rumsfeld and by extension this administration quickly found themselves on the outside looking in. Retirement is used for many options in the DoD.

    Rumsfeld resigned as SecDef. Some would say he was fired.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  21. #21
    Forum Member
    BFDNJFF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Iraq
    Posts
    1,508

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86
    And that would be one way to look at it. Talk to folks in the military. They have a different perspective. Folks who disagreed with Rumsfeld and by extension this administration quickly found themselves on the outside looking in. Retirement is used for many options in the DoD.

    Rumsfeld resigned as SecDef. Some would say he was fired.
    Rumsfeld tried to resign 2 other times and the pres. would not accept his offer. So I think its legit.
    ******=================
    ******================
    ******=================
    ******================
    =======================
    =======================
    =======================

    ------GOD BLESS AMERICA ! ------

  22. #22
    Forum Member
    scfire86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    HB
    Posts
    10,330

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BFDNJFF
    Rumsfeld tried to resign 2 other times and the pres. would not accept his offer. So I think its legit.
    How interesting that a week before the election Bush was on record as saying that Rumsfeld would be his SecDef till 2008. The day after he accepts Rumsfeld resignation.

    If folks on this board don't understand how the resignation process is used in that echelon of government and business I won't even try to explain to that level of naivete'.

    Next thing you're going tell us is the Iraq Study Group has it all wrong and things are really going great over there.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  23. #23
    Forum Member
    scfire86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    HB
    Posts
    10,330

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum
    Yes, we did elect President Bush, and more recent, we just vote in a liberal majority.
    Sure, they had a big show of getting a study together, showing how weak we are and how we are loosing in Iraq. But is that main their focus, no. They would much rather go for the easy vote and grant immunity to all those illegals that broke the law to get here.
    To quote the immortal Olson Johnson, "Who can argue with that?"

    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum
    Really, what's your proof? The media, **** ant reservists and guard guys that have to earn their money, and are not at their reserve station, hanging at the nudie bar? Or the stories from real vets or the record numbers going into the Marines?
    Mismanaged? Read history. You really think all the conflicts have gone off with out a hitch? Lets review; Argonne Forest, Tarawa, Iwo Jima, Operation Market Garden to name a few.
    Is it mismanagement or bias reporting?
    Mismanagement.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  24. #24
    Forum Member
    FireCapt1951retired's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Between here and there
    Posts
    790

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum
    Really, what's your proof? The media, **** ant reservists and guard guys that have to earn their money, and are not at their reserve station, hanging at the nudie bar? Or the stories from real vets or the record numbers going into the Marines?
    Mismanaged? Read history. You really think all the conflicts have gone off with out a hitch? Lets review; Argonne Forest, Tarawa, Iwo Jima, Operation Market Garden to name a few.
    Is it mismanagement or bias reporting?
    Anyone who has been in combat understands one thing. Things don't usually go exactly as planned and constant adjustments are needed. Murphy's law has been with the military since the beginning of the nation. Is mismangement part of it? Always. Is bias reporting part of it? Absolutely. Since Viet Nam, the press have been notorious for it's slanted coverage. I know I hated to even see the press anywhere near my unit (especially in a firefight). They seldom ever told the complete truth.

  25. #25
    Forum Member
    ThNozzleman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Jefferson City, TN
    Posts
    4,339

    Default

    Really, what's your proof? The media, **** ant reservists and guard guys that have to earn their money, and are not at their reserve station, hanging at the nudie bar?
    "**** ant reservists and guard guys??" These good folks spend a year or more away from their families, fighting and dying in a stupid occupation in order for a few neo-con bastards to fullfill their little empire fantasy and make a few rich people even richer, and they're "**** ants" to you because they disagree with Chimpy McFlightsuit and are brave enough to speak the truth? Because they aren't "real" soldiers?
    Weak.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Firefighters Betrayed
    By Nail200 in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 259
    Last Post: 07-07-2007, 04:11 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register