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Thread: Tip Sizes

  1. #1
    Forum Member tfpd109's Avatar
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    Question Tip Sizes

    Alright, I didn't search.... feeling kinda lazy to do that.

    Anyway, we are looking to add a couple smooth bore nozzles to the mix. The question I have is what size tips shall we go with? My thought was a 1 1/8" on the 2 1/2" line since the rated flow is 250gpm @ 50psi on the tip. And 15/16" tip on the 1 3/4" line. Anything bigger than that seems like to much gpm for that size line putting the engine pressure up there. Am I on the right track here?

    And please, info only on this thread. THANKS!!!!


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    Default Tip Sizes.

    15/16" is largest tip you can effectively use for a 1 3/4" line as it is equal to 1/2 the diameter of the hose.(Flows about 180gpm).

    Also, consider the 1 1/4" for the 2 1/2 line at about 330gpm @50psi. If you are going to go through the extra effort to use a big line, make worth your while gpm wise.

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    We use the 7/8" tip because we felt the line was a little easier to handle and the flows were in the 160 gpm range. Flowing the 180 gpm is a little tougher to manage and we checked and some departments with the 15/16" tips are running them a little light anyway. We also found more low pressure and fixed gallolage nozzles in the 160 range in case you need a fog nozzle to match flows.

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    Go with a triple stack on the 2-1/2 --- we use a double stack on the 1-3/4 We use a 1" 1-1/8" and 1-1/4" on thev two and a half and I think 3/4" And 7/8" on the 1-3/4 line
    Last edited by slackjawedyokel; 12-11-2006 at 03:48 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel
    Go with a triple stack on the 2-1/2 --- we use a double stack on the 1-3/4 We use a 1" 1-1/8" and 1-1/4" on thev two and a half and I think 3/4" And 7/8" on the 1-3/4 line
    What kind of gpm's are you looking at using the 3/4 tip?

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    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    My volly FD uses a break apart nozzle with a slug tip. We use 2 inch hose and the slug is a 1 1/4 inch slug. We flow it to around 40 psi for around 300 gpm. It works just fine. I also know of several FD's using 1 inch tips on 1 3/4 inch hose.

    Frankly what is the difference between putting a combo nozzle that will flow 200 gpm or more on a 1 3/4 inch hoseline or a 1 inch smooth bore? They both flow roughly the same gpm... I mean of course you can't go crazy with tip size but the 1/2 the size thing seems extreme to me.

    If it was me I would look at what you are flowing now with combo nozzles, do the math to figure the nozzle reaction and then go with a smoothbore that either matched or was slightly less than that. In my opinion...it is foolish to flow less than 160 through 1 3/4 inch hose and 180 to 200 is even better. Also in my opinion it is foolish to flow less than 250 through 2 1/2 so a 1 1/8 tip (which actually flows 265 at 50) or a 1 1/4 tip (326 at 50) are outstanding choices for a heavy hit.

    FyredUp
    Last edited by FyredUp; 12-11-2006 at 07:59 PM.

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    Forum Member tfpd109's Avatar
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    Thanks for the info all! Have a good one......

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    Default Tips

    "Frankly what is the difference between putting a combo nozzle that will flow 200 gpm or more on a 1 3/4 inch hoseline or a 1 inch smooth bore? They both flow roughly the same gpm... I mean of course you can't go crazy with tip size but the 1/2 the size thing seems extreme to me."

    I'm curious, are many departments flowing 200gpm out of 1 3/4" lines? Wouldn’t friction loss (50psi/100') and nozzle reaction (71lbs force @ 200gpm @ 50psi) make that an inefficient practice?

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    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    BScott: "Frankly what is the difference between putting a combo nozzle that will flow 200 gpm or more on a 1 3/4 inch hoseline or a 1 inch smooth bore? They both flow roughly the same gpm... I mean of course you can't go crazy with tip size but the 1/2 the size thing seems extreme to me."

    I'm curious, are many departments flowing 200gpm out of 1 3/4" lines? Wouldn’t friction loss (50psi/100') and nozzle reaction (71lbs force @ 200gpm @ 50psi) make that an inefficient practice?
    Nozzle reaction is a given, regardless of hose size. If you are flowing 200 gpm at 50 psi the reaction is the same whether it is 1 3/4, 2 or 2 1/2 inch hose. Nozzle reaction is most often noted as a problem during parking lot testing of hose streams when you are standing up. It is entirely possible to flow 200 gpm through a 1 3/4 inch hose. Not only possible but practical. This is a lighter, more manueverable line than 2 1/2. Believe it or not I still see 2 1/2 inch lines with 1 inch tips...WHY? Why drag that much weight around to flow only 200 gpm?

    My volly FD use 200 at 75 psi hozzles on 2 inch hose and it works great for us. The slug tip flows 300 and gives a really good stream. We are a one size fits all handline FD and it works great for us with no problems with the higher gpm flows.

    FyredUp

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    I was never a fan of the triple stack tips. Like the stacked tips on the aerial and the deck gun of the engine, they never got taken off for bigger flows.

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    Fyred up: Yes, I realize that nozzle reaction is solely a function of gpm and nozzle pressure and I have no doubts that flowing 200gpm through a 1¾ " is "lighter, more maneuverable" than the same flow in the 2 ½ ". Given the same flow, you’re right in choosing the smaller diameter. But speaking of, and comparing only 1¾” lines and their application in interior operations, nozzle reaction is a real consideration for the pipe man. 71lbs force is too much reaction to be safely handled by a single firefighter *advancing* a line.

    My company has trained with multiple configurations and members were constantly complaining above 180gpm. Could they “handle” 200gpm and greater? Sure, by the use of extra man power, sitting on the line, gating down etc.

    We have found 1¾” / 180gpm to a very capable line with the ability to knock down several rooms of fire in residential applications. (Believe me, if we could safely handle more flow, we would take it!) If we need more, we resort to the 2 ½ flowing 300gpm and make the necessary accommodations to handle the reduced maneuverability and nozzle reaction. 200pgm would not be enough for our commercial and high rise applications, not to mention those “Holy @#$!” moments with well advanced fire upon arrival.

    Take care brother.
    Last edited by BScott; 12-13-2006 at 11:14 AM.

  12. #12
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    BScott...

    We use 2 inch hose and while the nozzle of choice can flow 200 at 75 it will also flow around 160 at about 55 psi. As often as not that is the flow chosen for a one or 2 room fire. With the capability to go to 200 or even 300 if necessary.

    I realize that 200 gpm is not an easy line to operate. But we have done it and continue to do it. We train in techniques that allow our firefighters to handle the greater flow with 2 or 3 firefighters on the line.

    The reality is each FD will choose what is hopefully the best tool for them and teach their firefighters how to actually use it to the best advantage. I know it isn't always that way and frankly I have met firefighters that couldn't begin to tell you what the gpm flow is out of their handline nozzles...

    Take care and stay safe,

    FyredUp

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    In my 25 years on the job ( 7 as a firefighter, 12 as an Lt. and the last 6 as a Captain), I have never been ordered to change out nor specifed what size tip I want on a handline or a deck gun. The deuce and halfs have an 1.25 inch tips, the deck guns have stacked tips.

    Tip sizes? I usually tip 20% of the bill, 30% if the service was exceptional.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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