Thread: Auto Fires

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    Default Auto Fires

    I am planing on doing a training session on the proper attack method of car fires, this is a planned live burn. With the Cars gutted of Drive-train, and gas tanks of course. However i am afraid that i do not have enough material to teach the class. Our department is very young, and the number of people trained is very few so I want to make sure that I teach them the correct methods.
    I have downloaded the drill here from firehouse, Could you please share with me your insight, thoughts, and experiences. Also I would appreacate a eval. of the Drill, if it is enough to teach this class with.

    P.S. Please forgive the spelling and gramar, mistakes.

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    I haven’t read the drill that you are referring to, however I’m happy to share a few of thing that we do

    • Full SCBA & PPE of course
    • We use 1% class A foam initially, and dial it back to .2% to mop up for better penetration.
    • Unless a vehicle has been extinguished by the driver or other citizens in the first 30 seconds to a minute, 99.9999% of time they’re a write-off. I’m only interested in life safety issues including the crew. Most of the time it’s risk nothing to save nothing mode. Approach safely, and get traffic under control.
    • Try to determine fuel tank location & type. Propane could be really nasty.
    Approach from 45° angles. Approaching straight on from the front/rear/sides has hazards. For example loaded bumpers with shock absorbers can come off like a rocket. Generally you’ll see more loaded bumpers in modern European cars, and hardly any in modern American & Japanese models, but it’s better to be safe than sorry. You will see loaded bumpers in several 1970’s and early 80’s cars. Another reason for an angled approach is gas struts used in many mini-vans, hatchbacks, and engine compartments. They have been known to heat up and fire the chrome shaft out like a spear. We were fighting a fire of a tour bus once, and the whole rear outside duel tire blew off and flew approx 15 ft. I guess a common thread here is pressure vessels.
    • Upon my approach I like to give the vehicle a quick sweep underneath to put out that fire and clear the debris from there.
    • If it’s fully involved or past the halfway point towards the rear, I like to take care of the gas tank area first and get it under control. Quite a few of today’s gas tanks are made of plastic and when they let go there gets to be a lot of fire. Once again that’s why I like to get a good shot underneath in the gas tank region from a distance.
    • Generally most vehicle fires originate in the engine compartment. To gain access, I like to take a hooligan tool and pry the hood open from the side, enough to get a narrow fog stream in there and create some steam.
    • The trunk can have anything in it, exercise caution.

    Stay Safe

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    Do you really need to wear your mask and full ppe for an auto?
    I am a complacent liability to the fire service

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoFF
    Do you really need to wear your mask and full ppe for an auto?

    I just stand out of the smoke, how about you?

    FTM-PTB

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    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED
    I just stand out of the smoke, how about you?

    FTM-PTB
    I do prefer to stand on the smart side!
    I am a complacent liability to the fire service

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    Do you really need to wear your mask and full ppe for an auto?

    Yes, but only after you respond with no lights or siren. After all, it's only a car that's burning, and there is no life hazard, so there is no need to get there in a timely manner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jasper45
    Yes, but only after you respond with no lights or siren. After all, it's only a car that's burning, and there is no life hazard, so there is no need to get there in a timely manner.
    Do you smell ten, too?
    I am a complacent liability to the fire service

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoFF
    Do you really need to wear your mask and full ppe for an auto?
    Let's not forget setting up the PPV fan and setting up the RIC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jasper45
    Yes, but only after you respond with no lights or siren. After all, it's only a car that's burning, and there is no life hazard, so there is no need to get there in a timely manner.
    And stopping for green lights...don't forget that.

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    What is the proper NIMS form for Automobile fires?

    FTM-PTB

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    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED
    What is the proper NIMS form for Automobile fires?

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    If your auto fire is in an underground parking garage, what division would the attack group be?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TurdFergeson
    If your auto fire is in an underground parking garage, what division would the attack group be?

    Wouldn't that be a "Sub" Division?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED
    What is the proper NIMS form for Automobile fires?

    FTM-PTB
    ICS 200 CAR

    Unoriginal I know but its the best I could come up with on short notice!
    Shawn M. Cecula
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    IACOJ Division of Fire and EMS

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    Wouldn't that be a "Sub" Division?

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    Of course, but under what sector?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushwhacker View Post
    I am planing on doing a training session on the proper attack method of car fires, this is a planned live burn. With the Cars gutted of Drive-train, and gas tanks of course. However i am afraid that i do not have enough material to teach the class. Our department is very young, and the number of people trained is very few so I want to make sure that I teach them the correct methods.
    I have downloaded the drill here from firehouse, Could you please share with me your insight, thoughts, and experiences. Also I would appreacate a eval. of the Drill, if it is enough to teach this class with.

    P.S. Please forgive the spelling and gramar, mistakes.
    Pull up....stretch...attack from the "un-smokey" side....hit it with a straight stream first to knock it down, move in and open the pattern as you get close...sweep the ground...cool the bumpers and wheels. Pretty simple stuff. Make sure you open the hood and trunk.....pack the hose and go home. If you want to wear SCBA, thats fine, knowck yourself out.....can't remember the last time I did, also can't remeber that last time I was ever in the smoke of an auto fire either.
    IACOJ Member

  16. #16
    firefighter7160
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    Talking Flood the car.

    Use the deck gun. Then you dont have to pack up or wear turnouts. LOL....

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    To assist with flooding the vehicle, first push it into a dumpster. That will control some of the water runoff.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    To assist with flooding the vehicle, first push it into a dumpster. That will control some of the water runoff.
    LOL...............................

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    Bushwhacker:

    You have all the materials you need by having the cars. If you have several cars you can go over how to access the engine compartment and trunk space first by demonstrating it prior to having live fire.

    Firefighter1962 hit many of my points I thought of also. We preach on a state and county instructor level of wearing SCBA's. Wind shifts and things can go wrong and sooner or later you will have to get close to the vehicle. No need to expose yourself to unwarranted toxins that we know what is there. I know many who still do not and I do not judge but my department requires SCBA in our respiratory protection policy.

    With prying open the hood, its important to stress to do it in weak areas of the hood, usually the front corners by a person with a halligan. Bury the pike end in and pry pack and remind them its a car that is on fire to put their strength into it. Once it is opened enough to get the nozzle in, as stated a fog will extinguish most of it. You can either attempt at this point to use the fork end of the halligan to twist the cable for the hood latch or if you are not on the side or cannot reach it, you can then have your iron person go to the front and attempt access through the front grill in the same manner. Ensure that when exposed to the front the nozzle is still open on fog to cool down any potential bumpers or struts that could still pose a hazard.

    If you have any other questions PM me and I will assist you best I can.

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    Dont forget 2 in-2 out.
    Fire Marshal/Safety Officer

    IAAI-NFPA-IAFC/VCOS-Retired IAFF

    "No his mind is not for rent, to any god or government"
    RUSH-Tom Sawyer

    Success is when skill meets opportunity
    Failure is when fantasy meets reality

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    I love how these threads about such a simple and very much regular part of the job turns into a sarcasm fest......

    my serious answer: Full PPE and SCBA, stretch a trash line open the hood and drown it, or if you want to use less water use some foam, works wonders on the MAGNESIUM in a lot of vehicles. Thats why i like having my ppe on, if the magnesium flashes up i like having something between me and it.

    my not serious answer: Just call the tower to deal with it, they can stay clear of the smoke by being 50' over the car.
    FireFighter/EMT
    Rescue 1

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    Quote Originally Posted by res1cueffd View Post
    my not serious answer: Just call the tower to deal with it, they can stay clear of the smoke by being 50' over the car.
    Wouldn't two towers be better? One might breakdown or be delayed while stopping at green lights.

    Seriously, remind your students about traffic safety. People in cars watching the smoke will not see your firefighters.
    Last edited by KenNFD1219; 12-16-2006 at 03:40 PM.
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    Usually, when someone reports a car fire.. they forget to tell you the car is in the garage or parked right next to the house!
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Hola EL Capitan. Our dispatchers moreoften than not get that info from the caller and relay it to us. This may prompt a full alarm to the call if it is next to or inside the structure.

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    Usually, when someone reports a car fire.. they forget to tell you the car is in the garage or parked right next to the house!
    And that the trunk is full of acetylene and oxygen bottles.

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