1. #1
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    Default How do you pick who does what?

    I've read a few posts on this forum about riding assignments, fireground deployment, and the like. I tried searching, but was unable to find an answer to my question--if I missed something and this is redundant, please accept my apologies.

    My question is mostly in regards to departments who use "riding assignments" or duties by position. How do you chose who does what? FDNY guys (and anyone else)--how does the officer decide who will ride a certain position for the tour? What qualities, training, experience do you look for? Are there positions that automatically go to the "under-experienced" by default?

    I'm looking especially for information on what different departments use to judge competence in certain positions versus putting "meat in the seat." Are there certain positions that are coveted over others (besides the nozzle?).

    Thank you so much for your help....

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    Riding assignments in my FD are by seniority; the members (except officers) select their riding assignments every year. This is part of the union contract.

    All department members are qualified drivers, pump operators. and aerial operators.

    The Chief has the right to change a selection for cause (rare).
    Last edited by KenNFD1219; 12-24-2006 at 08:13 PM.
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    The officers involvement is "Who's doing what?" He really stays out of it, the crew decides. Everything is by seniority, meaning the most senior guy could have the pipe every day if he wanted. Most companies have a rotation. Ours is you get the pipe the day after your Daley day. Other positions are usually decided by playing cards or whatever.
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    We rotate, as we only have 4 guys on a shift. Actually we have 5 but with vacation & holidays 1 person is usually off. We rotate on our pay period, we go from driver of the engine or ladder to the rescue engine and then to the hose position.The officer is usually in his seat. Thats it in a nut shell, if you want more details let me know.

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    Well 1st off a little background. I am an officer on an Engine company, and almost always ride with a total of 4 personnel including myself. Occasionally we will have an extra and ride with 5, but this is vary rare. We will also occasionally, for brief periods of time through out a shift also ride with 3 - when someone has to ride in with the ambulance for example. When this occurs, we are available to make other medical calls, but will not be dispatched to a fire until we are back to a standard compliment of at least 4.

    For my regular crew, the guys normally work it out on their own. I am aware of the experience levels and abilities of my assigned crew and with exception to a newly assigned member, feel comfortable with all of their abilities. In fairness to my new guy, its not that I distrust him, he has just not proven himself yet. For that reason, he and people detailed in are the only people that I dictate their position.

    The new guy rides nozzle. That keeps him with me and gives him experience. People detailed in normally ride hook up, which means he initially aids the driver getting a water supply if needed, then teams back up with us and works as a back up man - I think the same thing FDNY calls the door man? Is that right Fred??

    When all members riding are suffieciently qualified to do any job, they will often ride "sides." Which ever side the fire is on, that guy will take the nozzle and the other will do the hookup man duties.

    Truck companies here ride with 4 as well and fall under the same exact possibilities listed above as it pertains to manning. They ride with an inside/outside crew. This typically consists of the officer and the lesser experienced guy being the inside team, and the driver and the more experienced guy riding outside. This normally ensures that the guys operating independent of their officer are the more experienced guys. Once the officer is comfortable with everyone assigned, the guys may as on the pumper, work it out on their own. For example if a guy has 10 years on and another has 12, they should both capable of riding inside or outside. The most common scenario would be swapping every set from inside to outside.

    Hope it helped.
    Last edited by MemphisE34a; 12-24-2006 at 10:47 PM.
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    Default Great posts

    Thanks guys...

    Lt. Kramer, you're post was very helpful. I know that you guys catch a good amount of fire in Memphis, so experience is easier to get. If an officer was on a Truck, what would a FF have to do in order to "prove himself" worthy of being the OVM (if you guys have one) or "roof man." What kind of skill sets or individual size-up things do you expect your guys who will be working more independently to know?

    Again, you guys are being very helpful...I appreciate you taking the time to respond....

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    We ride with 3 man companies, 1 Off/ 2 FFs. Senior FF has the pick of drive or jumpseat. Most crews work together all the time, so we try to rotate swing to swing-I'll drive these 3, you drive next swing.

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    For the ones who use seat assignments, does the CO have the flexability to change up the assignments based on specific incident situations? If say your the irons man for the day is that it? Or can the irons man be told to grab a knob if needed?

    Pardon my ignorance, but the whole concept of seat assignments is foreign too me, as no one around here uses them. Well of course, except for the officer and engineer that is. Our Co's give assingments to the back-seat crew as they arrive on scene, depending on size-up, situation etc. We do have task-specific tool requirements on a whole crew basis, just who grabs what isnt pre-determined, again except for the officer (radio, TIC etc).
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    Much like Chicago our boss, just asks what everyone has. Most of the regular bosses know who gets what based on who is in groups who is on Roster OT and who is obviously a detail and where they are comming from. The only time a boss will give out assignments is when there is a very junior incoming roster or one of details from Ladders.

    Obviously the seated Chauffeur in groups gets to be the MPO if he so chooses (most of the time).

    Then by who is in groups and who is senior gets to pick first...obviously most times the senior man chooses the nozzle. Then the next most senior takes either Back-Up or Control depending on the other persons expereince who would get Control. When we have a 5th man...the most junior man or a detail will get that spot.

    Obviously if a Manhattan 4 man Engine only has two incoming for that tour and the other 2 are details from St. Albans Queens Truck and one guy rotated through Engine Co. 50- 8 years ago and the other only has 2 years OTJ and has only worked a few times in Queens Engines...the more Senior man who has Engine time will do the right thing and take the control man's spot..even though he'd rather be Back-Up he obviously is much more familiar with standpipes and stretching of handlines into large buildings not typically found in Private Dwelling areas of Queens.

    As for Ladders, some places the Senior man gets the Irons, other places the Senior man almost always takes the OVM. Some places give the johnny the Can Man spot...while others stick them with the roof.

    The Truck in my house from what I've seenl usually gives the OV to the Senior man after the LCC and then the IRONS, then the roof and then the Can to the junior man or the Engine Detail.

    Much of it depends on what type of buildings one has in their areas. The roof man in L-162 has much different duties at a typical fire for them, than lets say Lad. 24 in Midtown Manhattan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave1983
    For the ones who use seat assignments, does the CO have the flexability to change up the assignments based on specific incident situations? If say your the irons man for the day is that it? Or can the irons man be told to grab a knob if needed?

    Pardon my ignorance, but the whole concept of seat assignments is foreign too me, as no one around here uses them. Well of course, except for the officer and engineer that is. Our Co's give assingments to the back-seat crew as they arrive on scene, depending on size-up, situation etc. We do have task-specific tool requirements on a whole crew basis, just who grabs what isnt pre-determined, again except for the officer (radio, TIC etc).
    Dave you are pardoned...

    The seat assignments are intergral to our accountability and operational efficency and thus is recorded on the BF-4 (riding list on the rig and with the officer) along with the riding board at the firehouse.

    The men are seated with the tools appropriately positioned near their seats and during a turnout to a box each member can begin sizing up thier duties and responsibilites according to what position they have for the tour.

    Yes if you are assigned the Irons, at just about every run, (other than a pin job in some Ladders) you will be comming off the rig with the same tools and the same duties. Under no forseeable circumstances baring every Engine man having been rendered a quadripegic will a Truckie ever touch a nozzle other than the one on the end of the can or the end of the TL bucket!

    If you have the roof, you are without pause going to make your way to the roof by whatever means possible following the guidlines set forth by the job for that position. There could be people hanging from windows and you will not be reassigned to that task as the completion of your assigned duties will in all likelyhood result in more lives and property being saved than if you had begun throwing portable ladders.

    If you have the Back-Up, you will be the second man in the strech and you will take your folds and drop them on the floor below and flake out the line before backing up the nozzle man for the advance...this is 99.999999999% sure.

    We do not haphazardly assign roles, duties, responsibilites and tools on sight according to the officers discression. There are RARE occurances where under our procedures the officer is permitted to have a member perform other duties other than those he is typically assigned and those circumstances are expressly outlined in the few places...as in releasing a member of the Engine from the Stretch to open the roof in the absence of a Ladder Co on scene.

    I hope that answers your question.

    A question for you...when you arrive and lets say are to perform the duties of the 1st Due Ladder Co(I remember that you guys don't maintain any semblance of company identity..eng or Lad.)...don't you essentially require a man to carry the Irons, another man to carry lets say a hook and a can or another tool 99% of the time? A search needs to be conducted shortly thereafter agressive pre-control overhaul in conjunction with the 1st Due Engine Co. Does it really varry that much that your Chiefs couldn't set out basic assignments for your men just as they have with the officer and Engineer? Wouldn't that make your operations response more predictable, effiecent and safer considering that certain tools and men would always be gauranteed and wouldn't this allow for greater ease in planning operational responses and budget needs for your chiefs?

    FTM-PTB
    Last edited by FFFRED; 12-25-2006 at 08:51 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by phyrngn View Post
    If an officer was on a Truck, what would a FF have to do in order to "prove himself" worthy of being the OVM (if you guys have one) or "roof man." What kind of skill sets or individual size-up things do you expect your guys who will be working more independently to know?
    Answer:

    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED View Post
    If you have the roof, you are without pause going to make your way to the roof by whatever means possible following the guidlines set forth by the job for that position. There could be people hanging from windows and you will not be reassigned to that task as the completion of your assigned duties will in all likelyhood result in more lives and property being saved than if you had begun throwing portable ladders.
    What Fred said. You have to know that the guy is going to do the job assigned regardless of what he sees, thinks, or feels he needs to do on his own or have one hell of an answer for the deviation. Its basically just a trust thing. Do you have confidence that the guy can accomplish the task without killing himself or anyone else and then report back to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave1983 View Post
    For the ones who use seat assignments, does the CO have the flexability to change up the assignments based on specific incident situations? If say your the irons man for the day is that it? Or can the irons man be told to grab a knob if needed?
    Dave,

    Keep in mind, that your seat assignment is the same, but task is differen't (at least for us) depending on the order that you arrive on the scene. My nozzleman is only coming off with the nozzle if we are the first arriving engine on the scene - and then only after I make a determination of which line I want to use. Of coarse there is more to it than this, but basically our SOP's dictate that the firsat engine is attack, the second is supply, and the third is support as dictated by the IC.

    Therefore, the nozzle guy will not necessarily be on a nozzle at every fire he is at.

    Make sense?
    Last edited by MemphisE34a; 12-25-2006 at 10:31 PM.
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    To go along with what FFRED stated. In my company the junior man working that tour gets the BF-4 from the Boss and gives it to the senior man on the backstep (not the MPO). Basically it goes by this:

    * RSOT Gets detailed
    * OT, if in house, gets Door or Control, (not gonna hog the money and the pipe)
    * Details get the door, unless we are 10-14 then he'll get control, unless he's a truckie....but if he came from an engine...he'll get control.
    * NEVER, NEVER, NEVER will a truckie EVER get the nozzle in my house, not even if they came from our company before crossing the floor. Even if a truckie relieves the nozzle man, he will not get the Nozzle.
    * Probies, we start them out on the nozzle until they get a nozzle job, then they will get the other positions.
    * Our senior man will usually take Control or Door. Control b/c he has the most experiance, door, so he can watch EVERYONE of us on the line.
    * 24s on the inside are not to be done unless there's some wired reason it must be done....2 details for each tour would be one reason.
    * If you had the nozzle at the start of the 24, you get control the second part of the 24. Same goes for backup and door.
    * If you put your papers into another company....you get Control until the transfer happens....even if that takes 6months to a year. If you don't want to be in the company, you do not get the honor and provilage of the Nozzle.

    That's the jist of it.
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    With Volunteers, and not having "Shifts" life is a little different. This is where the "Seat" assignment is at it's best advantage. Members come in the station, they look at the status board and take the next available assignment, unless they are new enough to still have some restrictions on what they can do. Newer folks will be assigned by the Officer. Our crew size may vary some, with fluctuating numbers of people on the apparatus. The Heavy Rescue and the Rescue Engine both have 8 seats, the Fire Engine has 6. The Ambulance and Brush rig normally operate with 2. Chiefs are usually alone. Our normal minimum is 4 persons, if we have 6, they all go on the first piece dispatched, if a couple more come in, the first piece drops back to 4, and a second piece is staffed with 4. As additional members come in, they fill additional seats, until we have 12, the the last 4 staff the third piece. To fill every seat, we need 35 people. This can be done, in unusual circumstances such as Hurricanes, Blizzards, Tornados, and non weather events such as a terrorism alert. Sounds confusing, I'm sure, but it works well for us.
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    Can you please post what seat assignments are present in the FDNY and what there duties are?

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    Default Awesome!!!

    Thanks guys...you really provided me with a lot of information. I need this, as I'm working to have seat positions more defined with the departments with which I respond. I'm still fighting the uphill battle involved with the "what ifs," but I see it as an accountability tool. To me, it's an insult to the guys' intelligence to give them assignments on every fire...they should know what they are doing, and things should be simplified per position. Plus, if anything bad happens, RIT should have an idea where to look, because the OV on the first Truck should be in a certain location most of the time. That sure beats asking around and then acting.

    Now, do you provide position-specific training...hwoods alluded to that somewhat with his response. Do you actually have OVM Training, Control Training, etc.?

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    Quote Originally Posted by VinnieB View Post
    * NEVER, NEVER, NEVER will a truckie EVER get the nozzle in my house, not even if they came from our company before crossing the floor. Even if a truckie relieves the nozzle man, he will not get the Nozzle.
    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED
    Under no forseeable circumstances baring every Engine man having been rendered a quadripegic will a Truckie ever touch a nozzle other than the one on the end of the can or the end of the TL bucket!
    I didn't think this even needed to be spelled out. I thought it was a cardinal rule taught on the very first day of every academy!
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoFF View Post
    I didn't think this even needed to be spelled out. I thought it was a cardinal rule taught on the very first day of every academy!
    It even crosses over to the wildland side, Hotshots can (and are encouraged to) carry hose packs up the hill, but no engineslug worth the name ever lets the attack nozzle go until mop up (and then there are plenty of nozzle to go around). Bad enough to let another engine crew get the nozzle, but giving it up to a Hotshot is a special shame that takes years to live down.
    Last edited by NonSurfinCaFF; 12-26-2006 at 12:21 AM.

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    Great discussion, especially for those of us that work for departments that only ride with 3 man engines and 1 or 2 man truck companies.

    For those that wonder the second in crew either pulls another line or helps with truck work. The second in driver after helping establish a water supply normally assists the guy on the ladder with truck company tasks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BKDRAFT View Post
    Can you please post what seat assignments are present in the FDNY and what there duties are?

    This will be brief, maily because it would take a book to explain every position.

    Engines:

    MPO (Motor Pump Operator, the Chauffer)
    Officer
    Nozzle
    Back-up
    Control (responsible for the stretch, assist MPO)
    Door (on 5 man engines)

    Trucks:
    LCC (Ladder Company Chauffer
    Officer
    Can
    Irons (foricble entry)
    Roof
    Outside Vent man

    Rescue, Squad and Marine Co.s also have positions. But I'll leave that up to one of the SOC guys to explain that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoFF View Post
    I didn't think this even needed to be spelled out. I thought it was a cardinal rule taught on the very first day of every academy!
    Well, you know it, and I know it....but you read the forums, soooo.....think about it and ask me again.
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    Our combination department runs with seating positions for tools and assignments. Basically we did this to have better accountability and ensure that we didn't end up with 5 "Irons men" on the lawn.

    All first due seats are labelled with their tool assignments and function. The career personnel riding are assigned their seats at the beginning of each shift. Seats thereafter are numbered by "functional importance." If three are on the engine and three on the Tower an off duty or call firefighter will take the 4th tower seat, next is the 4 engine seat, etc.

    The only real difficulty is when firefighters are used in the box (ambo) and seats are empty. Also, running with a short crew and taking in alarms often requires personnel to assist in searching the alarm cause leaving their normal fire duty position (MPO, nozzleman, once in a while the Tower Operator).

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    Quote Originally Posted by phyrngn View Post
    Now, do you provide position-specific training...hwoods alluded to that somewhat with his response. Do you actually have OVM Training, Control Training, etc.?
    Every Company officially drills once a tour. There are two tours in a 24 hour day so thus there are two drill periods in a 24 hour day.

    Every Sat or Sunday we also have MUD (Multi-Unit Drill) Where companies will go somewhere in the neighborhood and drill together on other more involved evolutions, such as suppling a TL or visiting a construction/demolition site, or a vacant in the neighborhood...etc.

    Every Monday and Tuesday the Ladder and Engine holds a roof rope drill and repacks the rope.

    Members are expected to know each position and their tools and duties. Should they be out of position at a job...everyone will know it, in the company and in the Battalion and quite possibly the Deputy Chief as well if you have really F*cked up. Needless to say that isn't something you want to happen as it makes your company standout and not in a good way.

    We drill often, at a box we ask among our selves what would I have done if this gas leak in Appartment 4F was instead a fire. The control man will always make an estimate...guys will always size up the building...where there fire escapes on the front or not? Are their Sissor stairs in this building?

    When we have a probie when he isn't doing something,(sheets, dishes, mopping..etc.) he is to be learning his job. We will have a drill on the standpipe, a drill on the roof rope...drill on Back-up, Drill on the Can position...etc.

    In the accademy each position is taught...however once out in the field...a truck probie will usually only get the can and occasionally the roof for quite sometime...untill he is very familiar with those positions and then he might get the Irons eventually and then some day the OVM.

    We drill on all positions and if you f*ck up you will never hear the end of it...so it would benefit one to drill and know their respective duties.

    I hope that helps answer your question.

    FTM-PTB

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    Volunteer department here. What is taught in "academy" and what departments do tends to vary.

    We do more of a vehicle assignment than "seats". Yes, we can have an engine showing up and functioning as a Truck. In MY area, it works as we carry fairly similar equipment on all our vehicles. Every engine has ground ladders and we don't have anything over 3 stories. Guys are trained in all positions. Driver and officer in front, the 3-6 guys in back decide who's doing what and the senior guy in back settles "disputes". Takes about 10 seconds for that to happen. Officer most likely won't know who is doing what nor does he need to, he knows what that "position" will be doing.

    Our SOG's describing the postion can be found at PPBFD SOGs
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    Combination department:

    The senior officer on the tour, either career or volunteer, will make the ride assignments before the beginning of the shift.

    Tower ride assignments: 4 Man Truck Crew

    Chauffer: Driver/Operator, controls utilities, and throws ground ladders. When operating as a 4 man truck crew, assists the hookman with horizontal and vertical ventilation.

    OIC: Enters fire building with the barman. Performs a search of the fire floor. Equipment: TIC, radio, and Hydraram.

    Barman: Forcible entry. Begins search and vents from the inside. Tools: Radio and the appropriate forcible entry tools.

    Hookman: Throws ground ladders, and when necessary, proceeds to the roof with the Chauffer, to begin vertical ventilation. Equipment: Six foot hook, and the can when operating with the inside team.

    Tower ride assignments: 5-6 Man Truck Crew

    Ventman: Assumes the Hookman’s (outside functions) which allows the Hookman to enter the fire building with the OIC and Barman equipped with a hook and can.

    Roofman: Responsible for vertical or horizontal ventilation. On multiple story, and high-rise fires, will enter the building with the Ventman to open up the stairwell bulkheads and search the floors above the fire.

    Engine ride assignments: 4 Man Engine Crew

    Chauffer: Driver/ Pump Operator.

    OIC: Enters the fire building with the Lineman and is equipped with radio, TIC, and Hydraram.

    Lineman: Pulls the attack line and functions as the nozzleman.

    Layout: Lays out and backs up the Lineman.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED View Post
    Dave you are pardoned...

    The seat assignments are intergral to our accountability and operational efficency and thus is recorded on the BF-4 (riding list on the rig and with the officer) along with the riding board at the firehouse.

    The men are seated with the tools appropriately positioned near their seats and during a turnout to a box each member can begin sizing up thier duties and responsibilites according to what position they have for the tour.

    Yes if you are assigned the Irons, at just about every run, (other than a pin job in some Ladders) you will be comming off the rig with the same tools and the same duties. Under no forseeable circumstances baring every Engine man having been rendered a quadripegic will a Truckie ever touch a nozzle other than the one on the end of the can or the end of the TL bucket!

    If you have the roof, you are without pause going to make your way to the roof by whatever means possible following the guidlines set forth by the job for that position. There could be people hanging from windows and you will not be reassigned to that task as the completion of your assigned duties will in all likelyhood result in more lives and property being saved than if you had begun throwing portable ladders.

    If you have the Back-Up, you will be the second man in the strech and you will take your folds and drop them on the floor below and flake out the line before backing up the nozzle man for the advance...this is 99.999999999% sure.

    We do not haphazardly assign roles, duties, responsibilites and tools on sight according to the officers discression. There are RARE occurances where under our procedures the officer is permitted to have a member perform other duties other than those he is typically assigned and those circumstances are expressly outlined in the few places...as in releasing a member of the Engine from the Stretch to open the roof in the absence of a Ladder Co on scene.

    I hope that answers your question.

    A question for you...when you arrive and lets say are to perform the duties of the 1st Due Ladder Co(I remember that you guys don't maintain any semblance of company identity..eng or Lad.)...don't you essentially require a man to carry the Irons, another man to carry lets say a hook and a can or another tool 99% of the time? A search needs to be conducted shortly thereafter agressive pre-control overhaul in conjunction with the 1st Due Engine Co. Does it really varry that much that your Chiefs couldn't set out basic assignments for your men just as they have with the officer and Engineer? Wouldn't that make your operations response more predictable, effiecent and safer considering that certain tools and men would always be gauranteed and wouldn't this allow for greater ease in planning operational responses and budget needs for your chiefs?

    FTM-PTB
    We do have basic assignments that are required by each company in the order they arrive. We all know what tools are needed for each job, and what jobs are needed on each incident. We just dont assign tools by ridding position.

    I guess were I loss the seat assignment thing is your irons man always grabs the irons, right? Now, in my world, if say Im 3rd engine in, we are RIG (RIT/FAST) so I would grab the RIG equipment, not the irons. If were 2nd in, we are water supply. Ive never needed irons on a hydrant (yet ). If were first in, if the fires on my side of the rig, I get the knob. If its on the other side, I get the irons.
    Fire Marshal/Safety Officer

    IAAI-NFPA-IAFC/VCOS-Retired IAFF

    "No his mind is not for rent, to any god or government"
    RUSH-Tom Sawyer

    Success is when skill meets opportunity
    Failure is when fantasy meets reality

  25. #25
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    University Park, MD
    Posts
    235

    Default Same county as hwoods, different battalion.

    Duty shifts, for volunteers (live-in and local) are one weeknight (Sun. - Thurs.) and a Duty Group rotation for Fridays and Saturdays. Weeknight shift hours are considered from 1700 (when day shift career staff is off duty) to 2400 at the latest, sleep-in if you can. Weekend Group is a 24 hour shift, relieved by the oncoming group, 0700 to 0700 hours. Group schedule rotates so no one group has to always do a Friday night or a Saturday night.

    Staffing "officially" begins when the majority of the shift for that night is in quarters. Until then riding assignments are left to the discretion of a live-in officer. Apparatus to be staffed are a BLS ambulance, one engine, one truck and one rescue squad. Officer takes a count of personnel on his shift and others in quarters riding that night. Duty shift members have preference over everyone else. With my shift, the other officer and I worked very well together. I prefered the engine, he prefered the truck. When we only had enough to staff two pieces of equipment, the truck crew would take the squad if it was due (we have an odd dispatching system).

    Engine
    Officer; Driver; Line; Backup; Hall; Layout
    The way I used to do riding assignments was that new members ride Layout (engine) or Ladders (truck). Senior man rode Backup (our ICS has it that if the first arriving officer passes Command, the second due engine officer becomes Command). When I rewrote the assignments, we put the senior man at backup, so he could watch the crew if the officer had to take command (rarely happened).
    Only if a new member was showing promise and confidence, and after riding for awhile, did I put him or her at Line. It usually went to an experienced or senior person.

    Truck
    Officer; Driver; F/E; Hook/Can; VES; Ladders
    If I were riding the truck that night, the senior man got the VES position, based not just on experience, but character and maturity too. Have to be aware of the tendancy to freelance. New member rode Ladders and worked with the Driver throwing ladders, running lights, etc. New member also rode either F/E (Forcible Entry) of Hook/Can, depending on whether or not I believed they could handle the responsibilities and based on watching them during drills and such. An experienced member rode the opposite to them, either F/E of Hook/Can.

    For the ambulance, we did a rotation taking one man from each piece (engine and truck/squad) so two people were not from the same suppression piece, and so the same two wouldn't take a beating on the ambulance calls.

    Also, in this county, we have staffing minimums. Three on engines and four on special services. If there was a shift of ten guys riding, we usually went heavy on the special service, i.e. four on the engine and six on the truck or squad.

    I always watched how the people on our shift acted, worked together and took that into account when making riding assignments. The maturity, how they knew the equipment, whether or not they checked the rig and tools, etc. If a new member was showing good steady progress, taking the initiative, then they would ride Line sooner and more, than a new member who was still having difficuly with things, or was missing his shifts. I also had to take into account that while my shift was mostly local guys, non-students, sometimes live-ins rode, and with students I had to be mindful of their schedule. They might ride for me if staffing were low, but they we also studying, or doing a paper, so if they could, I had them either drive or ride layout or ladders. Same went for the member who showed up, but was under the weather or having a bad day.

    That's how I did it. Hope it helps.
    William Carey
    "If you put the fire out right in the first place, you won't have to jump out the window."
    Andy Fredericks,
    FDNY E.48, SQ.18
    Alexandria, VA F.D.

    Rest in Peace

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