1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by MIKEYLIKESIT View Post
    Come on Fred. You know what a Pike Pole is.
    Yeah its what vollies use!

    I just always like to stir the disscussion a little.

    FTM-PTB

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    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED View Post
    It is the top two hooks, the bottom one looks like some cheap garbage.

    Thats what we are equipped with Fred, it may look like garbage, but I can assure you, we have the best equipment that low bid can buy.
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    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

  3. #28
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    We use PIKE POLES too. I guess we rubes out here in the midwest just aren't that cool.
    IAFF-IACOJ PROUD

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    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED View Post

    http://www.firehooksunlimited.net/hooks.html

    .



    FTM-PTB

    PS- What is a "pike pole"?

    This the caption found with this very ad..

    NEW YORKER HOOK (top two photos) - A slight redesign from the standard "PIKE POLE". * Used by FDNY for over 100 years.

    NATIONAL HOOK (bottom photo) - The "PIKE POLE" used Nation-wide.
    IAFF-IACOJ PROUD

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave1983 View Post
    Chain saw, axe, 6' NY hook, which is kinda like a two-sided standard pike pole (not sure the proper name, thats what we call it). If its a peaked roof and we cant get to it with the aerial, add a roof ladder (to work off of).
    If you are refering to the one that looks like a crocked "T", then that would be called the Haligan Hook.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MIKEYLIKESIT View Post
    This the caption found with this very ad..

    NEW YORKER HOOK (top two photos) - A slight redesign from the standard "PIKE POLE". * Used by FDNY for over 100 years.

    NATIONAL HOOK (bottom photo) - The "PIKE POLE" used Nation-wide.
    Yeah..."pike pole" sure, thats what was used to dismount charging, mounted cavalry in feudal times. What was posted is called a "HOOK"....friggin savages
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    Default The verdict is in...

    Vinnie and Fred are big meanies !
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    Quote Originally Posted by VinnieB View Post
    If you are refering to the one that looks like a crocked "T", then that would be called the Haligan Hook.
    Ok guys, educate me. We use them mostly as a heavy hook on the roof. What else?

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    My old volunteer department had a policy of staying off the roof if the fire's been going for more than 6 minutes.All we knew was how long it took us to get there so....
    Now if we'd gotten mutual aid from Paducah or another vollie department that had a ladder truck,we'd use pike poles for sounding,a pickhead axe,chain saw(started on the ground first and shut down for the ride up),and everyone has a light.
    None of the buildings except for the water tower in the district was over 3 stories.The water tower was special rescue and we'd call in the world for that one if it happened.
    Our own ladder truck was in the talking stages when I departed so that will change when it's acquired.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED View Post
    Yup, thats the one. Great tool.
    Fire Marshal/Safety Officer

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    Quote Originally Posted by MattyJ View Post
    My explaination was'nt good enough for you?? Sheesh!
    sorry, bro

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    Quote Originally Posted by 37truck View Post
    You tool selection should be determined by the type of building your operating on top of. If I am thinking correctly your department is a pretty small career FD. How many guys are you sending to the roof?

    Also, if your not using a power saw to vent with, the engine is going to take a beating pushing in, while you're trying to accomplish sufficent ventilation. If most of your jobs are in PD's. They will probably knock the fire down before you even get the hole opened up. With limited manpower you're going to have a greater effect on the outcome with proper horizontal ventilation at most fires.
    Sorry I did not mention that, we run a 2-3 initial truck crew, and we take a saw to the roof about every time, either a ventmaster chain or a warthog circular.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VinnieB View Post
    If you are refering to the one that looks like a crocked "T", then that would be called the Haligan Hook.
    You bring your fireplace poker to work with you?
    I am a complacent liability to the fire service

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoFF View Post
    You bring your fireplace poker to work with you?
    Better than that parade axe you guys use.
    Proud East Coast Traditionalist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a View Post
    Thats what we are equipped with Fred, it may look like garbage, but I can assure you, we have the best equipment that low bid can buy.
    Thats pretty good. The best equipment low bid can buy!!!

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    Default FDNY question

    I as understand it, venting peaked roofs is a rarity in NYC. Does the roof get opened if the fire is in the attic?
    IAFF-IACOJ PROUD

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    Quote Originally Posted by MIKEYLIKESIT View Post
    I as understand it, venting peaked roofs is a rarity in NYC. Does the roof get opened if the fire is in the attic?
    We VENT peaked roof PDs. We just DONT cut peaked roof PDs. Vertical venting isn't the only type of venting available to us. In the event of heavy fire in an attic, were the engine can not make it in...then vertical venting will be done via a tower ladder. I can tell you that in my area, we really dont have "attics", that space is actually a room with knee walls and an open staircase that will lead from the 1st floor to the top (inline). I know that I have operated from the stair well, moving up, hitting the ceiling space, and haven't had a problem. And after fielding this question to the senior men, they can't remember a time were they were stopped from making the top floor. Personnaly, I would rather the horizontal venting, and leaving the roof intact so what ever water I put up there won't just go right out the hole. Also from the staircase, I can hit the four corners of the roof better. And the weight of the line is supported by the stairs, or by me with one knee on the line......but....that is only in my area. I can't really tell you about the rest of the city. Most of the PDs in my area were built from the 1800s to about the 1920s.
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    Bottom line.... basically unless the fire is directly under the peaked roof, we dont waist time cutting it. If fire is in the attic (as I said..directly under the roof) than the Chief has the option of calling for a Tower Ladder to do it, but even that isn't seen too often. The roofmen vent and search the 2nd floor bedrooms from portable ladders.
    Last edited by MattyJ; 01-03-2007 at 10:52 PM.

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    Matty Vin and FFred, dont try and explain it, ive done it 3 different times and no one gets it! They all say well so and so says to do it, and I say its not worth our time. You cant Vent a peaked roof in the amount of time you can do it in an OMD or a Brownstone or Frame.

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    Take er easy jonny. I was just asking a question. Not questioning you or your department.
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    it depends on the pitch but typically a
    Halligan
    Chain Saw
    Axe
    Long Pike Pole or the National Hook per the text book guys.

    For commercial...ehhhh

    after the last fiasco...
    I would prefer two chainsaws with the same equipment

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    Jonnyirons2- I see your point and agree with you based upon my situation and department. We don't really vert vent PD's for a couple of reasons.
    1. We are strapped for manpower, we typically only have about 8-11 guys initally on the fireground.
    2. We have a lot of shotgun houses,(jonny if you aren't sure what one is ask Champ he learned the term in Charlotte) so it is easier to just pull the gables,take some windows, get in there man up pull some ceilings, throw a ppv in the door, and put the SOB out.
    3. Even in our larger PD's we take some windows and use aggressive firefighting to mitigate the situation.
    4. In our 2 story PD's a lot of citizens put down plywood and then store all of their Christmas crap and other stuff up there, so if we were to vent such a roof for something other than an attic fire it would be a pain in the ***** trying to push down through all of that ***** to make a hole in the ceiling.

    I am not saying that departments that vert PD's are wrong for doing it. If we had the manpower off the get go we might do it as well. It is just different kicks for different folks. Not a lot of vert venting is down in this area on PD's, but we are seeing more and more of it. In fact just last night I heard a neighboring department call for it in an attic fire, and it is done quite a bit in what I would call a garden apt.

    If I were to go to the roof depending on the pitch I would take a haligan, chain saw, flat head axe, and at least a 6' to 8' pike pole.

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    Question

    2. We have a lot of shotgun houses

    what's a shotgun house?

    "if you aren't sure what one is ask Champ he learned the term in Charlotte)"

    how about it champ?

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    "I am not saying that departments that vert PD's are wrong for doing it."


    I'll say it then. Vertically venting a peaked roof (typical PD attic space) for fire that is 2 or 3 floors away is a senseless waste of manpower.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic7 View Post
    Sorry I did not mention that, we run a 2-3 initial truck crew, and we take a saw to the roof about every time, either a ventmaster chain or a warthog circular.
    Like I said before unless it is an unusual circumstance your better off opening up horizontally. Like one of the other brothers said earlier...you only need to open up the roof when the fire is on the top floor. On a flat roof of ordinary construction, one of the biggest reasons to get a hole in the roof is limit the horzontal fire spread in the cockloft. I am a big fan of rotary saws for this type of work. Having an aggressive 12 tooth blade makes short work of cutting large holes required for these buildings. The biggest drawback with chainsaws are that once you take the edge off the chain it will no longer cut no matter how hard you force it. Also if their is a rubber membrane roof and you get any of it in the chain it can throw the chain off the drive sprocket.
    But you gotta use what you have and if the chainsaw is all you have then run with it.
    As for the hooks, I prefer the roof hook if avaliable just for the reason of it's prying capablility that you really don't get with a pike pole. A halligan is another great tool on the roof. I don't waste my time taking an ax with me on a commercial. If the saw doesn't run (probably because somebody didn't do their maintenance check) you will never get a big enough hole in the roof in a timely manner with the ax with your manpower.
    I will also use the same 12 tooth blade to cut the Q-decking found on strip mall roofs. I think the brothers in NY aren't permitted to cut it which is a shame in some circumstances. Also the sheet metal roof on factories. Just use common sense when operating on these or any other roof for that matter. With light weight trusses, metal and wood, if you feel it is safe to be on, get the hole made and get off immediately. Stay safe

    What's a shotgun house? I really don't want any of Ciampo's BS.

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