1. #1
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    Default Application Acceptance Procedures

    I need some input on how your dept. handles applications from potential new members. Is everyone accepted or does the chief screen out the "bad apples"?
    Feel free to give details.
    J.J. Bichard, Chief
    Devola Vol. Fire Co.
    Marietta, Ohio

    "A few, serving many"

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    Default

    After the app. is turned in, all of the officers look over the app. and discuss it's pluses and minuses. Then the chief and asst. chief interview the applicant to find out a little about him/her and to get a better idea on why this person is wanting to join.

    While all this is going on, the app. is submitted for a criminal/driving background check.

    If nothing sends up any red flags, then the person is allowed to join for a probationary period (usually about six months). At this point, the members will vote on whether this person should continue as a member.
    Just someone trying to help! (And by the way....Thanks for YOUR help!)

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    Quote Originally Posted by THEFIRENUT View Post
    After the app. is turned in, all of the officers look over the app. and discuss it's pluses and minuses. Then the chief and asst. chief interview the applicant to find out a little about him/her and to get a better idea on why this person is wanting to join.

    While all this is going on, the app. is submitted for a criminal/driving background check.

    If nothing sends up any red flags, then the person is allowed to join for a probationary period (usually about six months). At this point, the members will vote on whether this person should continue as a member.

    That is what we are doing now. I want to have more control over it though.
    J.J. Bichard, Chief
    Devola Vol. Fire Co.
    Marietta, Ohio

    "A few, serving many"

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    Default Application Process

    After the application is recieved the person is interviewed by the Chief and Deputy Chief. The Chief either appoints the person as an "appointed firefighter" or doesn't appoint. After the "appointed firefighter" attends 3 busisness meetings they are voted on by the membership, with a majority vote they become a "probationary firefighter". They must then serve 9 months on probation. Probationary firefighters have no voting rights however they can give input on meeting topics. After serving their probation with the Chiefs recommendation they become a firefighter. Appointed and probationary firefighters serve at the "will and pleasure" of the Chief and can be terminated at his discretion. Terminated firefighters do have an appeals process, should they feel they were unjustly terminated. The appeals process allows the terminated firefighter too present his case, and the Chief to present his case to a board of 5 firefighters.(President,DeputyChief,Captain,and 2 firefighters chosen by the President)No termination has ever been appealed, but the option is there. This may seem kinda extreme but it does afford the Chief a very good way to weed out the "bad apples".

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    The major problem that I see with this system is that this alows the chief to have the "good ol' boys system". He can pick and choose his friends at will. He can also get rid of anyone who doesn't like the way he is running the dept.
    Just someone trying to help! (And by the way....Thanks for YOUR help!)

    Aggressive does not have to equal stupid.

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    Default Good ole boy system???

    Can you NOT read????? There is an appeals process that doesn't involve the Chief (other than his testimony) How much more fair can it get? Plus why have a Chief if he can't run the department? I've been in the fire service (Both paid and volunteer for 22 years.(Chief for 7yrs.) Been associated with 4 different departments. and this system is by far the best I've seen. And ANY Chief who is doing what you discribed needs to be terminated himself. The Chief needs to do whats best for the department period. At whatever cost.

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    Our department is a multi-company department, consisting of four independently chartered companies. The oldest just celebrated its 150th anniversary. My company was organized in 1894.
    From the start each company was responsible for its own membership requirements and election process, and they are all pretty much the same.
    Department command has evolved over the years to where we have a chief appointed by the city and 3 assistant chiefs elected by the membership. Not a perfect command system, but it works.
    When a new member meets the requirements and is voted in by any company, his name is submitted to the chief, who hands it to the city peraonnel department. The standard background checks are conducted by the local PD, and the member's fire certifications are reviewed and placed on file.
    Only after the chief (as the official head of a city department) is satisfied the person meets department standards and places them onto the duty roster, can the members answer calls and fight fire in accordence with that person's level of training.
    At any time the chief has the power to place any member on duty suspention for infringment of department rules and policy. They are still a member of their company, but prohibited from answering calls.
    Infractions which occur within the workings of the company are handled by the membership to whatever extent the company by-laws dictate.

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    Our Chief looks through the applications with his officers. He then turns them over to the Police and Fire Commission who in turn run the Criminal History Background checks and, if they pass that, call the applicant in for an interview. If they pass the interview they are offered the position with the department. I believe they have a one year probationary period.

    Sarah

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    Default Fired-boss?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fireboss101 View Post
    Can you NOT read????? There is an appeals process that doesn't involve the Chief (other than his testimony) How much more fair can it get? Plus why have a Chief if he can't run the department? I've been in the fire service (Both paid and volunteer for 22 years.(Chief for 7yrs.) Been associated with 4 different departments. and this system is by far the best I've seen. And ANY Chief who is doing what you discribed needs to be terminated himself. The Chief needs to do whats best for the department period. At whatever cost.
    Chief, what up with all the career changes? never knew of anyone to work for 4 different depts.

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    Default No bickering please

    Now, now, I didn't start this posting to get people riled up at each other. I appreciate all the input. People on my dept. think they have a say in everything that happens. It shouldnt be that way. As the Chief, I should be able to screen applicants and accept only the ones I feel would best serve the dept. Am I wrong?
    J.J. Bichard, Chief
    Devola Vol. Fire Co.
    Marietta, Ohio

    "A few, serving many"

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    Default never fired

    #1,Started as a Public Safety Officer (Policeman/Firefighter/EMT), Lived outside the City I worked in so I volunteered on my community's small volly dept.(thats #2), Also volunteered on that same communities rescue squad as an EMT (that's #3) Moved to be closer to my elderly parents, and Joined the Volunteer FD where I live now. (That makes #4). I have been with my current FD since 1994. So I figure thats not a bad track record, And your welcome to contact ANY firefighter on my department and inquire as to my leadership/management skills.

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    3 for me. Did a stint as a volunteer, got hired in Houston and I started working for a smaller department part time last year. I know several guys who work for multiple departments.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fireboss101 View Post
    #1,Started as a Public Safety Officer (Policeman/Firefighter/EMT), Lived outside the City I worked in so I volunteered on my community's small volly dept.(thats #2), Also volunteered on that same communities rescue squad as an EMT (that's #3) Moved to be closer to my elderly parents, and Joined the Volunteer FD where I live now. (That makes #4). I have been with my current FD since 1994. So I figure thats not a bad track record, And your welcome to contact ANY firefighter on my department and inquire as to my leadership/management skills.
    Fireboss,

    Where exactly in Southern Ohio are you? Ever heard of or been to Marietta?
    J.J. Bichard, Chief
    Devola Vol. Fire Co.
    Marietta, Ohio

    "A few, serving many"

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    Quote Originally Posted by polecat View Post
    Chief, what up with all the career changes? never knew of anyone to work for 4 different depts.
    Chief is not alone. Just starting with my 4th department.... just moved around a lot for various reasons. Have to admit, being a probie AGAIN at 34 is kind of a drag.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fireboss101 View Post
    Can you NOT read????? There is an appeals process that doesn't involve the Chief (other than his testimony) How much more fair can it get? Plus why have a Chief if he can't run the department? I've been in the fire service (Both paid and volunteer for 22 years.(Chief for 7yrs.) Been associated with 4 different departments. and this system is by far the best I've seen. And ANY Chief who is doing what you discribed needs to be terminated himself. The Chief needs to do whats best for the department period. At whatever cost.
    First of all......yes, I can read!!!!!!

    Second....you said that the chiefs decision was NEVER appealed.

    Third.....I have seen several departments where the chief (and only the chief) made all of the decisions. This propably means that he doesn't trust the other officers under him to make any input into HIS department.

    And that......in a nutshell is the good ole boy system!!!!!

    Any questions?????
    Just someone trying to help! (And by the way....Thanks for YOUR help!)

    Aggressive does not have to equal stupid.

    ** "The comments made here are this person's views and possibly that of the organizations to which I am affiliated" **

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    Default Where am I?

    I'm in Lawrence County, The most southern point near Huntington,WV. Yea, I know where your At. Also Firenut find someone else to argue with, I simply answered this thread. Your intitled to your opinion. Have a nice day.

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    Not arguing, just stating my own viewpoint (by the way, I never called YOU illiterate).

    And yes, we are both entitled to our own opinions!

    Have a nice day yourself!!
    Just someone trying to help! (And by the way....Thanks for YOUR help!)

    Aggressive does not have to equal stupid.

    ** "The comments made here are this person's views and possibly that of the organizations to which I am affiliated" **

  18. #18
    bombera4life
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    At my department, all applications go to the membership committee. They are in charge of obtaining the background check and driving record and interviewing the potential member.

    Then at our monthly business meetings they will tell a little about the member, and either offer a recommendation or not, and the members will usually vote based on the committees recommendation. In order to be voted on you have to have a majority vote of the members at the meeting.

    Most people get on our department, usually the only ones that don't are ones that have anything on their background check.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bombera4life View Post
    At my department, all applications go to the membership committee. They are in charge of obtaining the background check and driving record and interviewing the potential member.

    Then at our monthly business meetings they will tell a little about the member, and either offer a recommendation or not, and the members will usually vote based on the committees recommendation. In order to be voted on you have to have a majority vote of the members at the meeting.

    Most people get on our department, usually the only ones that don't are ones that have anything on their background check.
    Hey bombera,
    I saw in the other forum that you were "bailing out". Just because some guys give you a hard time doesn't mean they are bad people. You need to stick around and listen to what they and others have to say. What they tell you may just save your hind end someday. Don't quit.
    J.J. Bichard, Chief
    Devola Vol. Fire Co.
    Marietta, Ohio

    "A few, serving many"

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    Quote Originally Posted by THEFIRENUT View Post
    First of all......yes, I can read!!!!!!

    Second....you said that the chiefs decision was NEVER appealed.

    Third.....I have seen several departments where the chief (and only the chief) made all of the decisions. This propably means that he doesn't trust the other officers under him to make any input into HIS department.

    And that......in a nutshell is the good ole boy system!!!!!

    Any questions?????
    I have to say that i agree with the firenut on points 2-4 on this. I came from one department where I had been deputy chief for 3.5 years, but was basically moved back to firefighter because of two things. #1, I challenged the chief to not micromanage but to delegate his work to the two deputies (myself and another guy) #2 i was not part of the good ole boy system (the person who replaced me as deputy was best friends with the chief.

    The other deputy didn't question the chiefs idea of wanting to control it all and he still has the position. Myself, I think all officers should have a say in it.

    And to boot, my replacement has 1/9th the training and skills, but hey, he is best friends with the chief. so he deserved it more. *insert sarcasm here*

    Chiefs should delegate and allow other members of their staff of officers to help make the process fair and just.

    sorry for my rant.

    JJ
    Jason.
    Career Paramedic/Volunteer Firefighter
    Saving Lives or Basements everyday.
    Member of the IACOJ

    Goalies are the best btw :P

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    I think a Chief's officers should do some of the things a Chief does, however, I have a Lt. who is also our president. He has the belief that he should be privy to everything that goes on. He does not need to know that. The president is over finances and committees. An Lt. is a low ranking officer. Why should either position know everything a Chief says or does? He doesn't, is my answer to the question.I guarantee anyone here that a Lt. on their dept. isn't kept in the loop on every little thing that comes up. When I decided to promote a Captain, the Lt. was angry because he didnt have a say in it. Why would he? The captain is above him.
    J.J. Bichard, Chief
    Devola Vol. Fire Co.
    Marietta, Ohio

    "A few, serving many"

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    I think the only "say" he wanted was to tell you to pick him instead of the other person.

    Now with that said:
    A chief should not have to tell everyone what is going on in the department, but there should be no "secrets" in the department either. It is good for the members of your department to understand how choices are made. This will in turn build "their" leadership skills.

    If there were two or more Lt.'s in line for a promotion, it would be good to know the reasoning behind your choice. I am not saying that the others had to agree with your reasoning, but in knowing it, it would help them prepare for the next promotion.

    My people skills are not the best in the world, so I get into trouble on certain occasions because of something I have said or done. But as long as I open up to the other members and explain where I am coming from, the damage is minimal.

    What I am trying to say is "a happy house is a more productive house". It may take a little more effort, but well worth it.
    Last edited by THEFIRENUT; 01-22-2007 at 03:25 AM.
    Just someone trying to help! (And by the way....Thanks for YOUR help!)

    Aggressive does not have to equal stupid.

    ** "The comments made here are this person's views and possibly that of the organizations to which I am affiliated" **

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    Our process is pretty thorough.
    1. Meet with training officer ( face to face, or telephone)
    2. Physical Agility Test
    3. Background Check
    4. Oral Interview Board (1 Chief or Asst., 1 Capt., 1 Lt or Engineer, 2 FF)

    All accepted are probationary for up to 1 year. Periodic performance reviews during prob. period by Training Committee, Instructors and Officers.

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