1. #1
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    Default Helmet Face Shield

    Hello;

    Do you flip down your helmet face shield while wearing your SCBA face mask? Do you have a requirement to do it or is the SCBA shield as strong as the helmet shield?

    Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ottawa View Post
    Hello;

    Do you flip down your helmet face shield while wearing your SCBA face mask? Do you have a requirement to do it or is the SCBA shield as strong as the helmet shield?

    Thanks.
    IIRC, the SCBA mask is certified to the ANSI Z87.1 standard for eye protection, so it should be sufficent.


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    Yeah I do usually that if something with the mask is defective I have the face shield.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ACfire1 View Post
    Yeah I do usually that if something with the mask is defective I have the face shield.
    ACfire..
    You shouldn't be wearing a defective face piece.. The helmet face shield does nothing.....after about two or three fires you can't see out of it anyway.... leave it up.. or better yet, take it off the helmet.

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    If I've been told right, I believe the face mask is considered to be NFPA compliant eye protection. I know the face shield is only a secondary means of eye protection. I use to pull my shield down when I masked up but it started getting in my way so I took it off. Hope this helps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lrg500 View Post
    If I've been told right, I believe the face mask is considered to be NFPA compliant eye protection. I know the face shield is only a secondary means of eye protection. I use to pull my shield down when I masked up but it started getting in my way so I took it off. Hope this helps.
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    Do you flip down your helmet face shield while wearing your SCBA face mask?
    No, and in all honesty, have never seen/heard of anyone doing this in the last 20 years.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Heh!
    The Dept I was with before my (idioic) relocation to the Garden State INSISTED all wear the stupit sheild.
    I wore a leather and Bourkes
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    My shield stays up. I could not see thru it anyway.

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    My old department has both the Bourke type eyeshields and the 4" face shields.I got used to the shield type helmet and would always have it down for the reason above:it's an extra layer or protection as it were.
    Well,that and the helmet was old enough that the screws holding the danged thing wouldn't hold it up which is why in numerous newsclips(all three of them),you'd see me helping take up with my helmet turned around backwards.I wasn't making a fashion statement.The shield not staying up when I wanted it to just annoyed me no end.

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    I always left my mask up until i bought leather. It of course had the Bourkes which are totally useless. With that helmet, i would rather wear goggles than the Bourkes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jeneric View Post
    I always left my mask up until i bought leather. It of course had the Bourkes which are totally useless. With that helmet, i would rather wear goggles than the Bourkes.
    Bourkes aren't even NFPA approved anymore are they? They're completely useless as are face shields. I dont know why shields are still approved, they offer minimal protection during extrication operations it doesn't take a whole lot to get something to fly up underneath one of those. All of our helmets here in Riverside County are issued with goggles no shields no bourkes.

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    dustinlevengood, I am not sure. I have retired about 6 years ago so I am not sure anymore. I always thought that they were useless as well. It funny, I remember a youngster once telling me that he didn't like face shields "because they might melt to my face". I let him think about that for awhile ......

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    Bourkes work just fine.
    I am a complacent liability to the fire service

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    Quote Originally Posted by dustinlevengood View Post
    Bourkes aren't even NFPA approved anymore are they? They're completely useless as are face shields. I dont know why shields are still approved, they offer minimal protection during extrication operations it doesn't take a whole lot to get something to fly up underneath one of those. All of our helmets here in Riverside County are issued with goggles no shields no bourkes.
    Goggles burn up too. So you might as well keep a good pair of safety glasses in your pocket if Bourkes don't suit your fancy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KEEPBACK200FEET View Post
    Goggles burn up too. So you might as well keep a good pair of safety glasses in your pocket if Bourkes don't suit your fancy.
    The goggles are only used during auto extrication, or when running a saw on a roof, the rest of the time they are flipped backwards and secured to the back of my helmet, if they melt my helmets gonna melt, and before that happens i'm gettin the f**k outta dodge. Alot of us myself included typically do use safty glasses rather then the goggles but if you drop the glasses somewhere or misplace em the goggles are always there.

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    Dont have a faceshield anymore, so i can honestly say that i dont, lol.
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    We use them on the industrial department I am on, but it is a different firefighting atmosphere than structural. Although, even in the industrial setting, they seldom are placed more than halfway down due to the possibility of an LPG environment (gases get caught up under the shield and create an explosive environment....right in your face). They mainly just keep water spray off your safety glasses....but that doesn't last too long when going in for a valve out under a 1000+gpm cooling master stream with 2 hand lines throwing power cones.

    I actually like the "darth vader" helmets used in the UK. They seem like a better design for full face protection, and eye protection is always with your hlmet.

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    I cannot stand the shields. A majority of all of our members use the faceshield. Our chief will not allow us to use bourkes although there isn't an SOP about it. So I have no bourkes or shield. Just the ESS goggles attached to the helmet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KEEPBACK200FEET View Post
    Goggles burn up too. So you might as well keep a good pair of safety glasses in your pocket if Bourkes don't suit your fancy.
    Thats for those of you who see fire more than once or twice a year, lol. The goggles were a good investment for me, since 75% of our calls are MVCs. Of the other 25%, probably 1% involves fires big enough to melt my goggles. It all depends on your departments percentages though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoFF View Post
    Bourkes work just fine.
    Yep, and unlike face shields you can still see through them after the first month.

    My preference is for bourkes and safety glasses.

    Goggles work well too, but face shields are pretty worthless, they get scratched up after a short time, the screws get loose so they don't stay up and get broken just riding around the truck, just a complete pita in my opinion.

    Besides Bourkes look better on leather.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dustinlevengood View Post
    Bourkes aren't even NFPA approved anymore are they? They're completely useless as are face shields. I dont know why shields are still approved, they offer minimal protection during extrication operations it doesn't take a whole lot to get something to fly up underneath one of those. All of our helmets here in Riverside County are issued with goggles no shields no bourkes.
    Bourkes are NFPA approved if use with goggles. This is why my deparment allows us to were them. But my department is also taking the shields off and giving us goggles to use for extracation and etc..
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbonetrexler View Post
    Thats for those of you who see fire more than once or twice a year, lol. The goggles were a good investment for me, since 75% of our calls are MVCs. Of the other 25%, probably 1% involves fires big enough to melt my goggles. It all depends on your departments percentages though.
    I can see the benefits in goggles over the face shield, especially on MVC calls. We too get a majority of calls for MVC, I wonder if I should switch to goggles. I can leave the shield on also just in case I ever need it.......

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    Quote Originally Posted by dustinlevengood View Post
    The goggles are only used during auto extrication, or when running a saw on a roof, the rest of the time they are flipped backwards and secured to the back of my helmet, if they melt my helmets gonna melt, and before that happens i'm gettin the f**k outta dodge. Alot of us myself included typically do use safty glasses rather then the goggles but if you drop the glasses somewhere or misplace em the goggles are always there.
    For sure man, If your goggles are melting to your face guys, you have a lot more to worry about than the goggles melting to your face, know what I mean?

    So, for clarity, the NFPA ruling is that those worthless piece of crap faceshields (My opinion, since they crap out...ie ripple and melt on the inside, rendering them useless) are NFPA approved as "Secondary Eye Protection", The bourkes shields are not approved as neither primary nor secondary eye protection...UNLESS they are accompanied by the NFPA approved goggles, which are approved as "Primary Eye Protection"...So using the goggles by themselves in "other than fire conditions". When in a fire, obviously, the SCBA mask is NFPA approved as primary eye protection. The regular little protective glasses are approved as primary eye protection as well (and are definitely a good idea even on all medical runs, what with all the crap you can catch out there).

    In any case, individual departments have SOPs that may even still be more strict that the NFPA ruling (you probably want to listen to your chief's orders :->)...IF your department is more lenient on these rules...GO by the NFPA ruling because your department isn't in compliance with with NFPA rulings, which are set up for Yours and my safety....just saying.

    Hope this helps

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