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    Quote Originally Posted by dano8696 View Post
    I believe that pierce did, because I spoke with the sales rep for the region.... (actually very credible)

    Were you able to find out if pierce did bid and it was thrown out or if they didn't submit a bid?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    While I won't say never happen, I doubt you'll see a Peirce tower going in anytime soon. The Peirce has a HUGE jack stance with four outriggers vs. the Scopes 2 that are a few feet narrower. And Peirce refuses to put a manual gun on their towers as tehy say the ladder is not designed to deal with the stresses. Plus, I have heard from a fairly reliable source that until someone beside Sutphen builds a tower with a waterway protected from hitting the parapet, they'll continue with Scopes. The 75 foot tower is probably another must, unless an offering is taller without being longer (not likely).
    The FDNY Aerialscopes are about 41 feet long on the 75' models. Most of there older fire houses can't fit a much longer apparatus, that is why they stay with Seagrave. Also if anyone from " FIREMATIC " the Pierce dealership out of L.I. N.Y. that covers new york city has any information if Pierce bid the FDNY pumper contract, please jump on this forum for some updated news!...
    Last edited by NewJerseyFFII; 01-09-2007 at 06:45 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NewJerseyFFII View Post
    The FDNY Aerialscopes are about 41 feet long on the 75' models. Most of there older fire houses can't fit a much longer apparatus, that is why they stay with Seagrave. Also if anyone from " FIREMATIC " the Pierce dealership out of L.I. N.Y. that covers new york city has any information if Pierce bid the FDNY pumper contract, please jump on this forum for some updated news!...

    I spoke with someone that was at the opening very reliable and he said that there were only two bids submitted Seagrave and Ferrara Seagrave being low bid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    .................... until someone beside Sutphen builds a tower with a waterway protected from hitting the parapet, they'll continue with Scopes. The 75 foot tower is probably another must, unless an offering is taller without being longer (not likely).
    Why doesn't Sutphen bid for em?
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    These opinions are mine and do not reflect the opinions of any organizations I am affiliated with.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFRDxplorer View Post
    Why doesn't Sutphen bid for em?

    Preparing a bid for a contract especially one this large involves an insane amount of time and effort and if they looked at the spec and thought that it was brand specific and thought that they were wasting there time lots of dealers and manufacturers will not chase someone elses spec.

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    I will e-mail the president of firematic and get the details....

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    Quote Originally Posted by dano8696 View Post
    I will e-mail the president of firematic and get the details....
    Cool lets us know when you hear something thanks

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    Seagrave has this FDNY thing down to a science. It's business as usual for them, building trucks for FDNY. They have it down to the last nickel on price.
    No special tooling etc. FDNY is most likely getting a terrific price on the trucks due to the volume they purchase. Some other company would need to low ball to get the bid and then they may lose $$ on it later.

    "just my thoughts"

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    Quote Originally Posted by ctxffman View Post
    Seagrave has this FDNY thing down to a science. It's business as usual for them, building trucks for FDNY. They have it down to the last nickel on price.
    No special tooling etc. FDNY is most likely getting a terrific price on the trucks due to the volume they purchase. Some other company would need to low ball to get the bid and then they may lose $$ on it later.

    "just my thoughts"
    That and with FDNY being seagrave only big purchaser I imagine they bend over backwards for them where the other companies dont really need to. I would suspect if seagrave lost the FDNY bid they would be in trouble.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFRDxplorer View Post
    Why doesn't Sutphen bid for em?
    They may have or could I suppose. But one fairly reliable source says, "never another Sutphen in FDNY". They ran a few back some years ago and evidentially weren'y happy with them. Certainly (IMO) they would not want any with the buckets hanging down or the box protruding from the bottom of the bucket floor as it compromises peaked roof ops. Though, atleast one Sutphen model has been changed to address this.

    Any major change in the fleet will be a huge undertaking with the shops having worked on Seagrave nearly exclusively for so many years. I would think you'd have to have a large cost savings along with many other issues addressed before a major change over could be done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    Any major change in the fleet will be a huge undertaking with the shops having worked on Seagrave nearly exclusively for so many years. I would think you'd have to have a large cost savings along with many other issues addressed before a major change over could be done.
    I don't want to pose as any kind of expert on FDNY, its shop or anything else about FDNY; I'm not. I do believe strongly in the concept of "lowest cost of ownership." That means not just the price of buying something, but what it will cost you to have it over its lifetime.

    While I tend to think more in terms of the price of parts and how often I have to repair or replace them, RFD has pointed out another very important part of the equation. I have to think that FDNY could buy an awfully lot of trucks for the price of the learning curve to get expertise in working on other stuff. The logic for putting that Spartan 'Scope at L53 (see Spartan Aerialscope threat) on City Island is a perfect example of that very valid viewpoint.

    Stay safe out there, everyone goes home!

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    It would be interesting to know why FDNY doesn't care for the Sutphens.From a mechanics perspective,I think they are a pretty well laid out machine particularly the SPH 100's.In looking at them from a service point of view,the stuff that you need to get at you can and the easily damaged expensive stuff(like the waterway)is shielded.And not overburdened with electronics.The ones they have,have manual overrides which I like.And double redundant controls. I realize my thinking is flawed 'cause I also think a Metz has a purpose in life,which most American truckies find repulsive.Still learning every day,T.C.

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    Not to get off the topic but i recently saw this picture of what looks like a new FDNY engine 283 and was interested in the choice of lightbars. Most of the new rigs i have seen had LED bars

    http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/...61143110unKlTZ

  14. #39
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    that is a LED version of the vector bar NYPD already uses them

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    I think the reasons companies such as Sutphen don't bid is due to the city holding three percent of the contract as a warranty buffer until the last tuck is out of warranty. In the case of this particular bid the city will be holding 3% until the 67th truck is 5 years old. Assuming the city takes delivery of say 20 trucks per year that translates to more that 8 years.

    From what I have heard there is never any money left in the coffers at the end of the contract either. But I cannot prove that point.

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    Default 1980-81 FDNY Sutphen towers

    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    It would be interesting to know why FDNY doesn't care for the Sutphens.From a mechanics perspective,I think they are a pretty well laid out machine particularly the SPH 100's.In looking at them from a service point of view,the stuff that you need to get at you can and the easily damaged expensive stuff(like the waterway)is shielded.And not overburdened with electronics.The ones they have,have manual overrides which I like.And double redundant controls. I realize my thinking is flawed 'cause I also think a Metz has a purpose in life,which most American truckies find repulsive.Still learning every day,T.C.

    I was at Sutphen summer 1980 during a strike yet they were kind enough to allow a brief tour. Also I was permitted to see the chassis of the truck headed for FDNY which was pulled off the line from somebody else and built for FDNY and made available at orsoon after contract signing.

    Not even ten years had passed and both the 1980 and 1981 Sutphen towers were out-of-service and soon out of FDNY. Rumor had it that the Sutphen bros were not well-pleased with that development. Tha's all I know about FDNY and Sutphen.

    ps
    When the tour was over I departed and suddenly a disgruntled striker stole a Sutphen pumper off the lot and I saw a Sutphen bro run after him on foot ------ yelling !@#$%^&*.At that point I made haste as I imagined a gun fight about to erupt!

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    Quote Originally Posted by firetdriver99 View Post
    That and with FDNY being seagrave only big purchaser I imagine they bend over backwards for them where the other companies dont really need to. I would suspect if seagrave lost the FDNY bid they would be in trouble.
    I don't think that they would be in trouble i am not saying it wouldn't hurt but they have other large accounts look at dc i believe there order was 11 pumpers and two tillers FDNY isn't the only thing that keeps Seagrave in bussiness on this contract i think it will be around 20 trucks a year for 3 years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sven73 View Post
    I think the reasons companies such as Sutphen don't bid is due to the city holding three percent of the contract as a warranty buffer until the last tuck is out of warranty.
    I have the opportunity to speak with many manufacturers and most dont want to go near a FDNY bid due to the 5 year warranty. One Seagrave employees told me that rigs have had stereos put in them by firefighters and have caused electrical problems, windows have been taken out and replaced with screens, one company even put in a window screen in the roof (yes, I said the roof) but if a lightbulb burns out within those first five years, its off to the shop for warranty work.

    Having the FDNY as a customer is more about bragging rights than it is about making money.
    I have only 2 allegiances, to my country and to my God. The rest of you are fair game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by firepiper1 View Post
    I have the opportunity to speak with many manufacturers and most dont want to go near a FDNY bid due to the 5 year warranty. One Seagrave employees told me that rigs have had stereos put in them by firefighters and have caused electrical problems, windows have been taken out and replaced with screens, one company even put in a window screen in the roof (yes, I said the roof) but if a lightbulb burns out within those first five years, its off to the shop for warranty work.

    Having the FDNY as a customer is more about bragging rights than it is about making money.

    Very well put.

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    Quote Originally Posted by firepiper1 View Post
    I have the opportunity to speak with many manufacturers and most dont want to go near a FDNY bid due to the 5 year warranty. One Seagrave employees told me that rigs have had stereos put in them by firefighters and have caused electrical problems,
    That doesn't explain the problems with the rigs that don't have stereo's...they are looking to make excuses. My rig doesn't have a stereo and when you make a left turn the horn blasts! Go figure...must be that non-existant stereo.

    windows have been taken out and replaced with screens,
    Well lets see the AC breaks in the 1st week of June and isn't fixed until October...meanwhile you are taking in 14 phone alarms in Bunker gear in 90+ degree weather.....what is your solution?

    one company even put in a window screen in the roof (yes, I said the roof)
    It is nothing more than replacing the roof pannel with one with some ventilation again, doesn't explain why these new rigs continually break down, catch fire and won't pump.

    BTW, Any rig I've ever seen with any modifications was way past the 5 year waranty mark and usually the modifications the men make...pale in comparison to the baling wire, duct tape repairs the mechanics make to keep 1986 TL spares in working order!

    Having the FDNY as a customer is more about bragging rights than it is about making money.
    If they'd built it right the first time with dependable, durable parts they wouldn't be loosing so much money...and if we didn't have silly Federal Mandates that make these rigs 1000x more complicated(and expensive) than they need to be!

    JMHO.

    FTM-PTB

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    Those werent my words my friend, just repeating what I heard from a Seagrave guy.

    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED View Post
    Well lets see the AC breaks in the 1st week of June and isn't fixed until October...

    JMHO.

    FTM-PTB
    Air conditioning? You guys are lucky to have AC in the rigs. That is considered a "luxury" item around here. And no short pants either.
    Last edited by firepiper1; 01-10-2007 at 07:06 PM.
    I have only 2 allegiances, to my country and to my God. The rest of you are fair game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by firepiper1 View Post
    Those werent my words my friend, just repeating what I heard from a Seagrave guy.
    Air conditioning? You guys are lucky to have AC in the rigs. That is considered a "luxury" item around here. And no short pants either.
    They are a relatively new item for us and only because
    Union had to demand them and it was somewhat part of the deal when we got those d@mn bunker pants.

    FTM-PTB

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    Anyone have any updates?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dano8696 View Post
    I will e-mail the president of firematic and get the details....
    Any response from him?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firetruckz View Post
    Any response from him?
    Negative on that! Altough I only sent him one email..... I have spoken to a certain "someone"
    and Pierce was supposedly attending the pre-bid meeting

    If you search the NYC Bid Solicitation/Award Database For Fire... Nothing is posted about it!

    http://a856-internet.nyc.gov/nycvend...rchArchive.asp

    How ever the 2 brand new fire boats are....

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