1. #1
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    Default "Rabbit Tool" for Outward Swinging Doors!?

    Anybody out there have information on the possible application of the Rabbit Tool for outward (toward) swinging doors, especially in commercial occupancies?

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    Thumbs up Huh?............

    Sounds like you just asked the question of the week. My first concern would be, given the OUTWARD SWING of the doors, Would the tool "Pop Out" under pressure and strike a crew member? We have successfully opened outward swinging doors by using a saw to cut the slide bolt, by cutting the second door's brace pins, , or by cutting the hinges off of one side. AND, don't forget taking the lock out with a "K" Tool. There's more than one way to get thru a door.

    The Firefighter (now retired) who invented the Rabbit Tool is from Prince Georges County, I'll try to see if I can find out more for you.
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    What type of door and frame and what is it set into? Metal door in a metal frame in concrete block-good luck. If it is set into framed walls (wood or metal studs) you may be able to slide the tool bewteen the door and the jamb and spread enought to pry the door outward. I would suggest getting in a stance where either your foot or body stops the swing of the door once it is opened, just in case it needs to be closed in a hurry.

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    Default "Rabbit Tool" & "HydraRam"

    You could use the rabbit tool for outward swinging doors but it seems the spread of the jaws don't exert equal pressure side to side after a certain distance and the can result in some slippage or the rabbit "jaws" becoming dislodged or popping out of the space. We use the hydraram for inward swinging metal doors and door frames and have used it for outward swinging doors of the same construction. It not designed specifically for that application but in a pinch, it works either way. When speed is of the essence and you don't have the time to fiddle with your irons (hope you brought them with you anyway), utilizing the tool in various fashions may prove to be advantageous. Look at it this way...Many of the tools we use were adapted from other professions so trying something different may just get a new tool invented or modified to fit yet another application...

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    Why would you need a rabbit tool for an outward swinging door? You should be able to pop most commercial doors within 20 seconds using a halligan and flathead axe. And if that doesn't work a cut-off saw may be the more appropriate tool. A good book to look in would be Mittendorf's Truck Company Operations. I am not sure if it mentions much about an outward swinging door and a rabbit tool though.

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    i've used my dept's "hydraram" on an outward swinging metal door cased in a concrete block wall, didn't take too long (15 seconds or so) to get the door open.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BScott View Post
    Anybody out there have information on the possible application of the Rabbit Tool for outward (toward) swinging doors, especially in commercial occupancies?
    The rabbitt tool and the hydro ram are designed to open inward opening doors. As firerfighters we rely too heavily on forcing doors using the hydro-ram tool. Conventional forcible entry tools ( halligan and axe ) should be used to open these types of doors. Granted, it is not impossible to use the hydro ram but you'll be much better off to get proficient using the axe and halligan rather than taking the chance of destroying the tool or getting someone hurt. Under non critical situations, always use the conventional tools to become familiar with how to use them and also become confortable using them.

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    Default proficiency is the word...

    Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. Proficiency in the use of the "irons" should precede all use of other means of forcible entry short of turning the door knob. substituting a flathead with a maul for heavier application's etc. but a firefighter should be extremely proficient with the "irons" before they utilize and get used to using other tools (hydraulic etc.) that make the job easier at times but prevent the firefighter from using a set of tools that are the backbone of the fire service and tool box...

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    Good question. One way to learn is by asking.
    I pretty much agree with Fireground and Salman. Learn how to use the tools of the trade. The K-tool was mentioned. Don't forget that one too. Inward or outward if the Rabbit tool fails you still have to get the door open.

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    As everyone else said, depends on your size up of the door and the tools at your disposal. Door with a long throw deadbolt is going to be a problem. We tried it a building we had to practice on and it actually displaced a brick veneer wall before the DB cleared. Knob lock only, particularly in wood frame and you can probably "spring" it with very little effort or damage.

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    You really need to see what you have. If I looked and was presented with a simple mortise lock I would put the rabbit or hydra ram in the jam spread it a little than take the adz end of the halligan on the bottom of the door and pop it open. If you cant get enough leverage add another halligan to it by connecting the forks. If you see carriage bolts on a plate in a rectangle shape its probably a simple lock. If you see them close by its most likely a slide bolt and their will be another enterance.

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