Do you believe that when an individual who just passed Firefighter I deserves the same respect that an individual who has been in the FD for 20 years, too?
That is one of the most irrelevant posts you've ever made, as well as one of the dumbest.Quote:
I guess that is the diofference between you and me, I treat everyone equally. Doesn't matter what their age, sex, religion, or race. Novel concept
The chief, acting as IC, I am hoping is a fully trained and qualified firefighter. Just because his current position is not inside fighting the actual fire is irrelevant. What's relevant is whether he is able to. If he is trained and qualified to, he is a firefighter. If he has no training and can't be in fighting a fire, he is not.
It's not about "are they doing the job" as much as "can they do the job".
Kangas could not do the job. He could do some fireground tasks and that was great. But that was it.
This is in response to all this crap about not being a firefighter. I have been on a volunteer department for 24 years. Most of that time has been spent behind the wheel and or at the pump panel. I did an eight year stint as Chief and most recently 3 years as an A/C. Also 4 years as a Chief Engineer and secondary safety officer. So now what this all makes me feel is warm and fuzzy all over, cause if I get killed on the job what will my family get for benefits cause "I'm not a Firefighter", I suffer from claustrophobia in an airpack. And they wonder why I am retirring and the retention levels are so low nationwide. Makes a guy wonder doesn't it. Just my 2 cents worth.
[QUOTE=sfd7101;810530]This is in response to all this crap about not being a firefighter. I have been on a volunteer department for 24 years. "I'm not a Firefighter", I suffer from claustrophobia in an airpack. QUOTE]
Very true --you are a big red truck driver, that delivers the crew to a fire.
You then give them the means to do the job of "Firefighter"
If I worked at an airport doing airframe fitting-traveling to and from the airport by plane but not being able fly it, does this make me a Pilot?
Out of interest -how did you manage to get through basic training without putting a B.A. set on?
Here's a concept:
If you take all of the discussion here on whether or not Chris Kangas was a "firefighter" and deserves all benefits of an LODD, put it into a questionnaire format and feed it into the computer, it would be thrown out. It wouldn't make it to Peer Review.
You can slice it, dice it, disect it right down to the very last minute detail and if it doesn't fit into the definition that has been established for such a purpose, then he won't make it. Come to think of it, it has been to Peer Review and they said "no".
Just like the Assistance to Firefighters Grants, you have to meet the eligibility requirements in order to be awarded.
If we keep it up, any "good samaritan" will meet the definition of "firefighter" simply because they had always wanted to be a firefighter and performed some of those duties on the day that they were walking by a house and saw smoke.
Don't think it could happen? It happened in our fire district where a "good samaritan" helped out at a field fire with his tractor and disk, was hurt in the process and tried to receive work comp benefits through our fire department.
He didn't die doing it, but his attorney argued that, for that brief moment, he was a "firefighter". He lost. But, ever since then, we do not take help from the by-standers.
It's just way too much liability to allow children on the fireground, at traffic accidents or even as spotters while backing a rig back into the fire station.
How many times can it be said that Chris Kangas was a great kid, wanted to be a firefighter, but wasn't on the day he died?
Good post, Chief.
Are you trained as a firefighter or are you trained as something else?
jeremy, how can one be a firefighter, if they aren't certified to actually fight fire?
So, let me get this straight. If an engine company crashes enroute to a fire the three "not in the driver " seat are considered firefighters and the driver is not. Or, none of them would get benefits because they were only enroute and not actually fighting the fire. Sounds to me like a fine line an insurance company would draw to avoid paying out a claim. Again, just my 2 cents worth.
It just seems to me that we are all doing the job of helping our neighbors and why are we splitting hairs over the type of job the individual is doing.? I thought it was a public safety benefit and all the josbs benefit public safety or is that just how a Maine Redneck would look at it?
The PSOB program is for firefighters and their families, not whackers - not wannabes.
where did anyone say that you had to be on the line at the moment of your death to be a firefighter anyway?
All I've been saying, and Bones as well, is that to earn the title of firefighter, you have to actually be able to do all the jobs that title would bring on, which include being able to put a pack on, and grab a handline, and put out a fire. Are truckies firefighters even though they vent, and search? You betcha, cause they went to the same academy and got the same training as the engine crews, and could perform that job is need be. Is the chief a firefighter? I sure as heck hope so. As chief, he probably came up through the ranks, serving in multiple capacieites over the years, one of which better have been as a line firefighter. Is the air rehab guy a firefighter? In my department he is, because he can put a pack on, and do ANY job the chief would ask of him, including putting out the fire. Are the juniors we have firefighters? That would be a big firm no, because they can not perform any of the majority of the functions that are necessary on scene. Changing my bottle out at a fire, does not make someone a firefighter. Graduating from whatever basic training there is for the department, with a state certification that says they can pack up, grab a line, and back me up inside, does.
Okay, so the redneck statement wasn't a shining moment. How about this one. Federal forestry guys die in the line of duty all the time and they get benefits. Right? Then why don't you see them weearing an airpack to get the benefits? Do they even train with them? Just food for thought.