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  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingKiwi View Post
    And I bet they said that at Chris' station as well mate.

    Bloody hard road to walk after the event occurs Brother.

    You’re right, of course.

    And I wonder if you’ve hit on the nub of this whole debate. As adults we are suppose to look out for our children’s well fare. Children aren’t expected to have the judgment or maturity to make good decisions about the risks they take, that ‘s what the adults are for.

    And perhaps we aren’t doing such a good job.

    Bill.


  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    Wowsers.. Trots, you have outdone yourself this time.

    Tell you what, since in your FD "The IC does not have to be a chief, and may not even be a fire fighter".,. why not let the 1st grade teacher at the elementary school run your next fire?
    How about the local barber?

    How about a traveling salesman passing through town? That would be a hoot!
    Sorry to have confused you. I thought we all knew that an IC had to be some authority figure, not an ordinary citizen. The first fire fighter on scene takes control of the scene and becomes the incident commander. Control can be passed off to a higher ranking officer or chief if the incident warrants. If the incident grows large enough the IC may be a county, state, or federal official not even in the department. And on crime scenes the PD takes the role of IC. I never said a citizen off the street could be IC.
    Last edited by HotTrotter; 05-18-2007 at 08:12 AM.

  3. #243
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotTrotter View Post
    Sorry to have confused you. I thought we all knew that an IC had to be some authority figure, not an ordinary citizen. The first fire fighter on scene takes control of the scene and becomes the incident commander. Control can be passed off to a higher ranking officer or chief if the incident warrants. If the incident grows large enough the IC may be a county, state, or federal official not even in the department. And on crime scenes the PD takes the role of IC. I never said a citizen off the street could be IC.
    And do you really believe that a County, State, or Federal official that is coming in to take over as IC of your fire scene is not a firefighter at all?

    Because we are talking about the FIRE SERVICE here, not the Police, not FEMA, not the Water Department. Crime scenes?




    If you are a firefighter and you are at a crime scene, if you are shot by the bad guy, do you get recognized as a Police LODD?
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    And do you really believe that a County, State, or Federal official that is coming in to take over as IC of your fire scene is not a firefighter at all?

    Because we are talking about the FIRE SERVICE here, not the Police, not FEMA, not the Water Department. Crime scenes?




    If you are a firefighter and you are at a crime scene, if you are shot by the bad guy, do you get recognized as a Police LODD?
    My scene could be a hazmat incident, mass casualty incident, natural disaster, or many other things. In those cases, the person taking over the IC may indeed not be a fire fighter. Remember good friend, we do more than just fight fires.

  5. #245
    IACOJ BOD FlyingKiwi's Avatar
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    Can anyone else hear barking in the distance?
    Psychiatrists state 1 in 4 people has a mental illness.
    Look at three of your friends, if they are ok, your it.

  6. #246
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FF1157 View Post
    Rand it is pro's not prose, Just a friendly bit of help.
    No it's not. The word prose was entirely appropriate in that context. He was referencing a posting writing style.

    Definition from Merriam Webster dictionary: the ordinary language people use in speaking or writing

    Just a friendly bit of help.

    FyredUp

  7. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotTrotter View Post
    Sorry to have confused you. I thought we all knew that an IC had to be some authority figure, not an ordinary citizen. The first fire fighter on scene takes control of the scene and becomes the incident commander. Control can be passed off to a higher ranking officer or chief if the incident warrants. If the incident grows large enough the IC may be a county, state, or federal official not even in the department. And on crime scenes the PD takes the role of IC. I never said a citizen off the street could be IC.
    If I could connect your backpedaling to my electric meter, it would be spinning backwards faster than Lance Armstrong pedalling to victory in the Tour De France.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    If I could connect your backpedaling to my electric meter, it would be spinning backwards faster than Lance Armstrong pedalling to victory in the Tour De France.
    No backpeddling at all. I just didn't write the intial post explicitley and in simple enough terms so that everyone understood. I assumed I was speaking with fire fighters who were familiar with the ICS. I also assumed that everyone understood we don't put civilians off the street in those roles. Although I guess technicaly until officals arrive on the scene (PD, FF, EMS, etc) then civilians are actually the ICs. I apologize if you didn't understand these principles

  9. #249
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
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    Nice try... but totally off the mark as usual.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  10. #250
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    Did you ever see someone show up at a gun fight with a knife so many times?

  11. #251
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    Knife? That might still have given him a fighting chance. He showed up at the gun fight hog tied, and strapped to post with a bullseye hanging around his neck.

    Trotter, in the IC command system, the overall incident commander may not be the fire chief, or a firefighter. However, he damn well will have a fire department representitive with him (someone like, oh, the chief), who will tell him how and when to deploy what resources, and what everyone is capable of. The Chief will also be who the FD resources are reporting too, and the chief will then report to the incident commander on the progress of fire operations. So essentially, the chief or other officer, is still in charge of the FD, just not the whole incident.

  12. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    Did you ever see someone show up at a gun fight with a knife so many times?
    ...and a rubber bladed butter knife at that!
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  13. #253
    IACOJ BOD FlyingKiwi's Avatar
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    So far the posts have proven him to be

    Incisive
    Demonstrative
    Intelligent
    Objective
    Topical

    Just my view.
    Psychiatrists state 1 in 4 people has a mental illness.
    Look at three of your friends, if they are ok, your it.

  14. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    ...and a rubber bladed butter knife at that!
    Actually, it was more like a spork...
    My opinions might coincide with someone of importance's POV... I wouldn't know, since I never bothered to ask. My policy is: "Don't ask, don't care."

    IACOJ--West Coast PITA

  15. #255
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    If you are in second grade and get to be the line-leader to lunch are you the incident commander???

  16. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geinandputitout View Post
    If you are in second grade and get to be the line-leader to lunch are you the incident commander???
    No that would be the Hall monitor. He has nothing to do with lunch.
    Co 11
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    Amateurs practice until they get it right; professionals practice until they cannot get it wrong. Which one are you?

    'The fire went out and nobody got hurt' is a poor excuse for a fireground critique.

  17. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by jerry4184 View Post
    Knife? That might still have given him a fighting chance. He showed up at the gun fight hog tied, and strapped to post with a bullseye hanging around his neck.

    Trotter, in the IC command system, the overall incident commander may not be the fire chief, or a firefighter. However, he damn well will have a fire department representitive with him (someone like, oh, the chief), who will tell him how and when to deploy what resources, and what everyone is capable of. The Chief will also be who the FD resources are reporting too, and the chief will then report to the incident commander on the progress of fire operations. So essentially, the chief or other officer, is still in charge of the FD, just not the whole incident.
    Please. He posted that he has the "safety officer, officer, NIMS" yada yada qualifications.

    You are forcing him to tell you how your logical and informed approach to Incident Command is wrong. To prove how right he is about Incident Command you are forcing him to post a link on the study of mad cow disease in cattle.
    Co 11
    Virginia Beach FD

    Amateurs practice until they get it right; professionals practice until they cannot get it wrong. Which one are you?

    'The fire went out and nobody got hurt' is a poor excuse for a fireground critique.

  18. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    Did you ever see someone show up at a gun fight with a knife so many times?
    Good question, why does he keep showing up with a knife??

  19. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by jerry4184 View Post
    Knife? That might still have given him a fighting chance. He showed up at the gun fight hog tied, and strapped to post with a bullseye hanging around his neck.

    Trotter, in the IC command system, the overall incident commander may not be the fire chief, or a firefighter. However, he damn well will have a fire department representitive with him (someone like, oh, the chief), who will tell him how and when to deploy what resources, and what everyone is capable of. The Chief will also be who the FD resources are reporting too, and the chief will then report to the incident commander on the progress of fire operations. So essentially, the chief or other officer, is still in charge of the FD, just not the whole incident.
    The original statement was "The IC does not have to be a chief, and may not even be a fire fighter." For some strange reason, one that I don't understand, a few on here wanted to allow citizens off the street to have control of the incident.

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    I s this thread still going? Or did it fly off in some other unrelated topic zone?

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