1. #1
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    10

    Post Implementing Rescue Team

    I am with a small volunteer Fire District in north Louisiana consisting of around 50 firefighters, and we are in the process of implementing a rescue team. We currently have only 4 individuals within our parish who can efficiently and effectively operate all of our extrication equipment. Being all volunteer, if these 4 individuals are out of the parish, the chances of a successful extrication are minimal. I am looking for any guidelines, procedures, documents, advice, ect. about creating a rescue team. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

  2. #2
    OSD122

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    125

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RRPFD1 View Post
    I am with a small volunteer Fire District in north Louisiana consisting of around 50 firefighters, and we are in the process of implementing a rescue team. We currently have only 4 individuals within our parish who can efficiently and effectively operate all of our extrication equipment. Being all volunteer, if these 4 individuals are out of the parish, the chances of a successful extrication are minimal. I am looking for any guidelines, procedures, documents, advice, ect. about creating a rescue team. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
    Instead of creating a "Rescue Team", why not train most, if not everyone to perform vehicle rescue?

    Does Louisiana have a state agency in charge of fire service training? If so, you may want to reach out to your state training agency and see if there are any vehicle rescue classes that your department could get. Usually, most states have a basic 16 hour Vehicle Rescue curriculum, and more advanced courses.

    My recommedation is to have 16 hour minimum Vehicle Rescue Awareness class for everyone. Make this a weekend class and require everyone to take it.

    The class should cover vehicle anatomy, hydralic and hand tools, vehicle stabilization, etc. The first day is usually all class work, with the second day spent stabilizing junk cars, and cutting on them.

    Your department should also get a good working relationship with local towing companies. We have a couple who will donate junkers for us to cut on. There's ussually two, or three in our back lot at any given time that we go out and stabilize and cut on during duty crew nights.

  3. #3
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    10

    Default

    Thanks for the info. We do have a training agency - LSU - which provides training across the state. Every month an instructor from LSU comes and shows the few people in attendance a powerpoint. He basically reads every word off the screen. The rescue class he recently taught consisted of reading a powerpoint then going into the station bay and "playing around" with some of the tools. The people that were "playing" with the tools would NEVER actually operate them in an emergency, but they would definitely show up and "watch" (just to see who they might know that is trapped in the vehicle)

    One of our largest problems is actually getting responders to attend these training sessions (but the sessions have become sooo useless and boring you can't blame anyone for not showing up). Our second problem is our responders can't operate the equipment under a stressful emergency situation because we never have any "real-life" training exercises. Plus we have NO certified first responders and only three EMT-B's. Some responders cannot handle operating the equipment next to someone who is seriously injured.

    I was hoping that creating a "Rescue Team" would possibly serve as a momentum boost and encourage some of our more qualified responders to actively participate in training?? Maybe even help recruit some other citizens of the parish to join our efforts. Our chief has a "personal" problem with one of the towing agencies, but I am in the process of re-building the relationship with them. Our chief also stresses the fact that firefighting is our number one responsibility!?!? I am seriously concerned about the effectiveness of our current rescue operations. I dread the day we lose someone due to an inefficient/ineffective rescue effort....

  4. #4
    Forum Member
    Haweater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    THE Rock, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    141

    Default

    We also have a pretty small department, which is the prime reason that everyone on the department gets hands-on training with the hydraulics and other extrication tools. Everyone gets to cut up cars with the tools and although some are better and will be picked first for calls, anyone on the department that has been here long enough to get an extrication training can go.
    We have a training coming up this spring or summer and are looking around for a good trainer as we haven't had professional training in years. If the guy that comes to your hall only shows power points and 'plays', find a new trainer. Get some cars and a trainer that will take a class out to rip some metal. Lots of dangers in the new cars, taking that classroom information out of the classroom in the most important part of the training.
    Cheers,
    Gord

  5. #5
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    191

    Default

    Gord,
    What department are you from ?

    Firedog7
    Calgary Fire Dept

  6. #6
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Haweater View Post
    We also have a pretty small department, which is the prime reason that everyone on the department gets hands-on training with the hydraulics and other extrication tools. Everyone gets to cut up cars with the tools and although some are better and will be picked first for calls, anyone on the department that has been here long enough to get an extrication training can go.
    We have a training coming up this spring or summer and are looking around for a good trainer as we haven't had professional training in years. If the guy that comes to your hall only shows power points and 'plays', find a new trainer. Get some cars and a trainer that will take a class out to rip some metal. Lots of dangers in the new cars, taking that classroom information out of the classroom in the most important part of the training.
    Cheers,
    Gord
    Thanks for the info. We are trying to get some new and improved training for our responders. As I stated earlier, the term "Rescue Team" is sort of being used in a way to create something "new & different" in hopes more people will become involved and take an active role in the training. I saw a site that was advertising a Rescue Convention at Texas Motor Speedway in Ft. Worth. Does anyone have any information about this??? I would like to send 3 or 4 of our more experienced responders to something like this and let them bring back new information to our other responders. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

  7. #7
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    157

    Default

    I am not too far from you as the crow flies. Send me an email and I will get you the name of a guy in Louisiana that did training for us. Powerpoint, new car stuff and hands on. Brand of tools does not matter and the training is free for Volunteer depts.

    hvfd@sbcglobal.net

  8. #8
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Ft Worth, Tx
    Posts
    397

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RRPFD1 View Post
    Thanks for the info. We are trying to get some new and improved training for our responders. As I stated earlier, the term "Rescue Team" is sort of being used in a way to create something "new & different" in hopes more people will become involved and take an active role in the training. I saw a site that was advertising a Rescue Convention at Texas Motor Speedway in Ft. Worth. Does anyone have any information about this??? I would like to send 3 or 4 of our more experienced responders to something like this and let them bring back new information to our other responders. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.
    RRPFD1
    Click on the web site below, go to upcoming events in the navigation bar, a link will take you to all the details.
    http://www.midsouthrescue.org
    Is it time to change our training yet ?

  9. #9
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    130

    Default

    Cut cut And Cut we train at least once month on extracation and its the one training were i can expect the largest turnout at we usually have cars on the pad to be cut, make the training realistic and challanging do your classroom in small bites so you dont get "Death By Power Point" if you do extracation training and only four people show up if its good and a challange next time you will have six here the crews expect the unexpected durring training and it helps keep up interest

  10. #10
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    10

    Default

    hrtrescue10:
    Thanks for the info. I sent you and email this afternoon with some additional informaion.

    LeeJunkins:
    Thanks for the link to the site. I am talking with a few individuals that may be able to attend the extrication fest. I could not think of a better way to learn about the latest advancements in the rescue field along with receiving some high quality training.

    captaincvfd:
    Sounds like you have the correct mindset when it comes to attendance at the training classes - create and provide a challenge that gets the responders excited about attending the class. We are definitely lacking this!!! Thanks for the info.
    Last edited by rmoore; 02-04-2007 at 11:08 PM.

  11. #11
    Todd Hoffman

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    22

    Default

    If you are looking for training in your area let me know. We are planning an Accident Scene Safety and Extrication Train-The-Trainer in the New Orleans area in the near future. todd@sceneoftheaccident.org

  12. #12
    MembersZone Subscriber
    dday05's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    1,331

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RRPFDVOL View Post
    The problem with getting the type of training YOU want is ATTENDANCE!! If there is noone to train whats the purpose in setting up classes?
    How many people do show up for your fd training? If 1,2,3,4,5,or more show up then guess what do training. You can't sit around and wait for people to show up or what not. Make a calendar up of your monthly training and pass it out at the first of the month. You can't do training just because only a couple, or just a few people are the only ones there. Usually the ones who show up to training are the ones who are usually at or on the calls as well.I'd rather have the few that do show up trained to know what to do.

    To get people involved I would have a basic training session. Go over all of your equipment and the operation of the equipment as well, and see what happens from there. I cant believe out of 50 people on you fd only 4 can run your equipment. I would be setting up some training standards for your dept. And if people don't like them show them the way to the door.

  13. #13
    MembersZone Subscriber
    dmleblanc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Not the end of the earth but I can see it from here...
    Posts
    2,318

    Default

    I agree with DDay....you have 50 members in your department and only 4 of them know how to do extrication? That's nuts.

    I really don't think that a separate "rescue team" is the answer. Everyone in the department should be able to perform extrication, at least to an extent. You'll always have some that are more proficient than others, some who enjoy it more, but everyone should at least be trained in it.

    Why not take those 4 guys who know what they're doing and have them train the rest? All you need to do is get ahold of a few junked cars and get to work on them. Sure, having a professional instructor would be nice, but in-house training is better than nothing.

    Also, I find it odd in this day and age that you have NO First Responders in your department. How long does it take to get an ambulance to an accident scene in your area? What's being done for the patients during that time? I mean seriously if the 3 EMT's and the 4 extrication techs happen to be out of town (maybe they're all in Fort Worth at an extrication seminar ), what are you going to do then?

    Bottom line, the public pays for the extrication tools...they would expect that we at least know how to use them when we arrive. Kind of reminds me of the old days 30 or 40 years ago in my own department, when whoever was sitting on the barstool down the street from the station would drive the truck. Didn't have to know how to operate it, didn't even have to be a member of the department, I guess. Just drive the truck to the fire and maybe someone will show up who knows how to get water out of it

    I'd like to think we've advanced a little farther than that.
    Chief Dwayne LeBlanc
    Paincourtville Volunteer Fire Department
    Paincourtville, LA

    "I have a dream. It's not a big dream, it's just a little dream. My dream — and I hope you don't find this too crazy — is that I would like the people of this community to feel that if, God forbid, there were a fire, calling the fire department would actually be a wise thing to do. You can't have people, if their houses are burning down, saying, 'Whatever you do, don't call the fire department!' That would be bad."
    — C.D. Bales, "Roxanne"

  14. #14
    MembersZone Subscriber
    dmleblanc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Not the end of the earth but I can see it from here...
    Posts
    2,318

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RRPFDVOL View Post
    I agree with you dday05 but when you are a volunteer department for such a small parish and have to pay for training it gets alittle frustrating when its the same 5 or so people everytime. Yes these 5 people show up when needed to a rescue but all the other 45 usally do too, but where were they for training? All of our training in conducted on the last Tuesday of each month and this is set for the year. It doesn't get any easier then that to plan to be at a training class. Any ideas you and others may have to get the other 45 interested on a regular basis would be greatly appriciated. I know I am guilty of not making all the training classes but you can't make em all. Thanks everyone for you help in this matter hopefully we can report that things are bigger and better for our Rescue side of the department in the future.
    Maybe the answer is to have more training classes. Seems like one drill a month is a little lax. We train every week. There are just too many topics to cover for 12 drills a year to be sufficient. Small wonder that extrication training gets such a small amount of attention.

    I understand, too, about volunteers. One problem we have is too many people who consider training optional. As chief, it is hard to balance the need for training with the need for people to have their personal lives. In the end, the best answer, I find, is to set a minimum amount of training that everyone must attend to maintain membership. Put it in writing, make sure everyone knows about it. Then enforce it. If someone hasn't come to drill in 6 months, a year, whatever, yank their gear and their pager. If they're only showing up to watch and they don't know what to do, they're not contributing anything. Cut your losses and cut 'em loose.
    Chief Dwayne LeBlanc
    Paincourtville Volunteer Fire Department
    Paincourtville, LA

    "I have a dream. It's not a big dream, it's just a little dream. My dream — and I hope you don't find this too crazy — is that I would like the people of this community to feel that if, God forbid, there were a fire, calling the fire department would actually be a wise thing to do. You can't have people, if their houses are burning down, saying, 'Whatever you do, don't call the fire department!' That would be bad."
    — C.D. Bales, "Roxanne"

  15. #15
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    10

    Default

    dday & dmleblanc:
    I am glad that someone else can see the real problems we have in our parish. As I have stated before, the only reason for using the term "Rescue Team" was for motivation purposes - maybe if people feel they are more or less part of a "team", they will be motivated to do more?? It may or may not work, but it is certainly worth a shot and we certainly can't hurt our current status!! I made the proposal to the board to simply form a group of individuals who would meet once a month and pull out all the extrication equipment to check and make sure it is operating correctly. They could also have a brief training session (even could be taught by an in-house responder) and also discuss any incidents that occurred earlier that month.... One of the comments I received was "I would rather have a grass fire team.." ummmm OK!!

    As far as the first responders and EMT-B's are concerned - it is truly SAD.. We have ONE ambulance serving our entire parish of 10,000 and response times for an ambulance usually range from 10-15-20 minutes...SCARY!! I personally spent my summer taking an EMT-B class (which I paid for myself) so I could be of more assistance to the citizens of the parish. You are correct in that it is CRAZY to have NO first responders on a department of our size. A first responder class was taught back in 2002, but they never were tested at the state level to become formally “CERTIFIED”. I guess everyone seems to be satisfied with how things are and there is no desire to improve or become better?!?!?

    You are very correct in that the public pays for the extrication tools and expects us to know how to operate them. We definitely have the financial means to cover the training although we might have to cut down on the purchase of more “forestry hose”. We have not cut on a vehicle for training purposes in over a year!!! but we had some great knot tying and rope classes..... I guess my thoughts are kind of summed up with this - "Due to our 10 minute average response time, we rarely ever save someone's life from firefighting (if they have been in the burning building for 10 minutes, they probably aren't gonna make it), but we have helped save numerous lives by extricating seriously injured patients from vehicles......so why not put a little more emphasis on rescue???????" I am certainly not discrediting firefighting, but we just need to take a look at our overall priorities...

    Thanks for all the great feedback and info!!!

  16. #16
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    1

    Default

    I am concerned that RRPFD1 may have his "priorities" confused with getting his "jollies". General firefighting just doesn't do it for some people. Whether it's a God complex or simply a quest for glory, volunteers will come out of the woodwork for an injury accident, unfortunately, for selfish reasons. They are eager to become a "savior" or claim credit for "saving" someone's life. Such a need is usually born of insecurities or a feeling of inadequacy. Volunteerism should have no selfish aspects, rather it should be sincere and for the right reasons. In a small department, ALL personnel is needed for ALL calls. You should never feel that certain tasks are beneath you in the fire service or that the least of those are unimportant. While more lives are certainly saved by extrications versus grass fires, both are tasks that should be taken seriously by the pure-of-heart volunteer who joined to SERVE his/her fellow citizens. It seems by your posts RRPFD1 that you have a problem with authority and it is your goal to undermine the leadership of your department. Such actions will only lead to less attendance, participation, and alienation of your fellow members. If you disagree with your chief, the most respectable and adult action that you could take would be to have an open discussion with him. To seek advice on a national forum without his knowledge for matters he and your department as a whole must decide shows dangerously immature and questionable character issues. Your comments concerning the itinerate instructor who offers your department monthly instruction is insulting and inconsiderate. Learn to be a team player and you will find your volunteerism more rewarding.

  17. #17
    MembersZone Subscriber
    dday05's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    1,331

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RRPFDVOL View Post
    I agree with you dday05 but when you are a volunteer department for such a small parish and have to pay for training it gets alittle frustrating when its the same 5 or so people everytime. Yes these 5 people show up when needed to a rescue but all the other 45 usally do too, but where were they for training? All of our training in conducted on the last Tuesday of each month and this is set for the year. It doesn't get any easier then that to plan to be at a training class. .
    Why do you have to pay for training? Why can't your firefighters who are trained in using all of your rescue equipment show your firefighters in house how to do so? And your question about where your people are at for training I'd set up a training plan and say everyone needs to be here on such and such dates and if people don't comply suspend them from not showing up on calls until they meet their training requirements. I know this sounds harsh but you're only asking one night a month for training.

  18. #18
    MembersZone Subscriber
    dday05's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    1,331

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rasmussen07 View Post
    . It seems by your posts RRPFD1 that you have a problem with authority and it is your goal to undermine the leadership of your department. Such actions will only lead to less attendance, participation, and alienation of your fellow members. If you disagree with your chief, the most respectable and adult action that you could take would be to have an open discussion with him. To seek advice on a national forum without his knowledge for matters he and your department as a whole must decide shows dangerously immature and questionable character issues. Your comments concerning the itinerate instructor who offers your department monthly instruction is insulting and inconsiderate. Learn to be a team player and you will find your volunteerism more rewarding.
    I'd say from his first post he's trying to find out some info. I'd also say that forming just a rescue team for auto ext should be a job that this fire depts current firefighters should be taught to do. For whatever reason that only 4 out of 50 firefighters can use the tools is'nt a good thing by any means. I'd say it's probably a training issue or just taking the time and get everyone oriented on the use of the tools.I don't know the fd's situation and hopefully both members can take some of the info they seen here and make their fd a better dept. After all this is sort of what these forums are for right? Take care

  19. #19
    Forum Member
    Haweater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    THE Rock, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    141

    Default

    Wow, that gets to the point.
    I can hardly fathom that you had a grass fire and only one member showed up. To lose a member of the public over that is incomprehensible. I would assume there was a lengthy meeting after that affair?
    If attendance is so horrible, it sounds like it's time to implement a minimum training and call requirement. At our department, you are to inform an officer if you cannot attend a training. If you miss 3 in a row you get a letter and a meeting with the chief. If you continue to miss meetings, you're gone.
    Minimum attendance for meetings is not unreasonable to require 75%; those who can't make the majority of trainings are not likely well trained enough to be useful at a fire and are likely dangerous to everyone.
    If you have members that never respond to fire calls, ask them why they are on the FIRE department. Creating a strictly rescue team for a volunteer department sounds like a waste of resources. Unless you have a lot of unused bunkers laying around, you shouldn't be filling any sets with people that aren't willing and able to attend every type of call that comes in.
    Just my $0.02,
    Gord

  20. #20
    MembersZone Subscriber
    dday05's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    1,331

    Default

    Chief, I really don't think he said anything to bad about you.Sounds like you and him need to sit down and iron some issues out before this situation gets way out of hand, and before your dept gets a black eye over this.

  21. #21
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    1

    Default

    RRPFD1

    You responded this to a post by LeeJunkins:

    LeeJunkins:
    Thanks for the link to the site. I am talking with a few individuals that may be able to attend the extrication fest. I could not think of a better way to learn about the latest advancements in the rescue field along with receiving some high quality training.

    Why are you just talking to a few individuals instead of everyone on our department. How can we all recieve effective training if we don't know about it!

    Just a thought.

  22. #22
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    10

    Default

    Thanks to everyone for sending the personal messages! They are very entertaining, yet informative!!

  23. #23
    Forum Member
    WBenner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Ontario Canada
    Posts
    190

    Default Lead by example.

    RRPFD & RRPFDVOL, It seems that you guys cant even get along.
    The whole goal here would be training. Im from Canada but the same problems exsist here as well. My dept is composite. The Volunteers have to meet a attendance % of 50.
    If your Department has guys who are strong leaders and they are trained at a higher level. Then let them carry on. You 2 guys need to meet in person and work this out for the benefit of your Dept.
    Maybe your training is boring and not up to date. If thats the case your not going to get the guys to come out..

    Hands on training for EVERYONE..and a little more intense training for those who want.. but make everyone feel as they are apart of the Depart.an example would be to use 3 levels (Awareness, Operation, Technician) And the idea of a Training calender works very well. You to seem to be leaders now step up and lead but go through the right the right channel (chief)..

  24. #24
    MembersZone Subscriber
    SWLAFireDawg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    303

    Default

    I can't believe a Fire Department Chief and 2 of his firefighters just spilled their dirty laundry all over a public forum...ever hear of a face to face talk?

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Members of local FEMA team upset with response
    By stm4710 in forum Hurricane Katrina & Rita Forums
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-07-2005, 11:34 AM
  2. World Of Fire Report: 07-02-05
    By PaulBrown in forum World of Fire Daily Report
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-07-2005, 12:23 AM
  3. World Of Fire Report: 02-19-05
    By PaulBrown in forum World of Fire Daily Report
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-22-2005, 11:23 PM
  4. World Of Fire Report: 03-06-04
    By PaulBrown in forum World of Fire Daily Report
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-08-2004, 08:39 PM
  5. Firefighter's death serves as inspiration for dive team
    By H2oAirRsQ in forum Underwater Rescue and Recovery
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-23-2003, 01:25 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register