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  1. #1
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    Default Midmount Platform Questions

    Some fire apparatus manufactures like Seagrave Aerialscope , Kme, say that there platform apparatus with it's capability of a - 12 degree elevation are the only devices to reach ground level while " fully retracted " for ease of exit & entry. Are other builders such as Pierce , E-one , Sutphen , ALF, RK aerials available with the same capability with there buckets ?
    Last edited by NewJerseyFFII; 05-15-2007 at 07:09 PM.


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    MembersZone Subscriber Halligan84's Avatar
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    Unless Aerialscope has done some major rework, the 95' Ascope that I am familiar with probably takes at least 40 feet to get it on the ground, no where near retracted. The KME definitely does within 25' of the truck.

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    If you notice, in that picture the passenger side tires are on the ground where as the drivers side are off the ground.

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    ALFs 100' midmount can get pretty close to that. I can't remember the exact distance. We were impressed with the 5 section aerial. We currently have 2 on order.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NewJerseyFFII View Post
    Some fire apparatus manufactures like Seagrave Aerialscope , Kme, say that there platform apparatus with it's capability of a - 12 degree elevation are the only devices to reach ground level while " fully retracted " for ease of exit & entry. Are other builders such as Pierce , E-one , Sutphen , ALF, RK aerials available with the same capability with there buckets ?
    This was an important factor to us, so we wrote in the spec that each bidder had to supply us with the measurement from the side of the truck to the front of the bucket with the aerial at 90 degrees to the body and within 6" of the ground. Here's what we got:

    ALF: 26' (93 foot MM)
    KME: 24'6" (95 foot MM)
    E-One: 46' (95 foot MM)

    If I find the bid books I'll look for the Peirce and Scope info too, but I didn't put the info on our final spreadsheet as the costs excluded them right off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VanIsleEVT View Post
    If you notice, in that picture the passenger side tires are on the ground where as the drivers side are off the ground.
    actually, it looks like the outriggers are lifted as well...

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    This was an important factor to us, so we wrote in the spec that each bidder had to supply us with the measurement from the side of the truck to the front of the bucket with the aerial at 90 degrees to the body and within 6" of the ground. Here's what we got:

    ALF: 26' (93 foot MM)
    KME: 24'6" (95 foot MM)
    E-One: 46' (95 foot MM)

    If I find the bid books I'll look for the Peirce and Scope info too, but I didn't put the info on our final spreadsheet as the costs excluded them right off.
    It is very interesting to see that the E-One is almost double the measurement !...

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    Alf, and KME can do that because of their outrigger set up, and jack spread. Those jacks pretty much stabilize the rig like outriggers on a crane would. The reason E-one and Seagrave are 40' + is their jack spread is the shortest allowing for setup on very narrow streets.

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    Plus the main lift cylinders are on the sides of the ladder as opposed to underneath, and you can see that the body is not as high as the other midmounts. I know with E-One's truck the ladder can be fully extended and the bucket can be put on the ground with the shorter jack spread. Thats the big selling point short spread,lots of stability.

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    The E-One also is a 4 section ladder as opposed to others that are 5 allowing a shorter bedded length. I believe the Seagrave/Scope is also 4 sections? I defineately agree that the Scope and E-one are tops in the jacking systems. E-One's is awesome with just a 13 ft. spread and the single set of low underslung outriggers. As far as set up, nothing beats the E-One jack system.

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    Regarding the KME picture, the leveling system will bring the truck level with all wheels off the ground. Once level KME teaches to lower the rig until at least one wheel touches the ground. I have never seen the jacks on the opposite side lift off the ground with ours, I have seen it on demos of quite a few makes including KME when we were testing various manufacturers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    The E-One also is a 4 section ladder as opposed to others that are 5 allowing a shorter bedded length. I believe the Seagrave/Scope is also 4 sections? I defineately agree that the Scope and E-one are tops in the jacking systems. E-One's is awesome with just a 13 ft. spread and the single set of low underslung outriggers. As far as set up, nothing beats the E-One jack system.
    I was told that E-One will be showing a new mid mount tower ladder at FDIC this year.
    I have only 2 allegiances, to my country and to my God. The rest of you are fair game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by firepiper1 View Post
    I was told that E-One will be showing a new mid mount tower ladder at FDIC this year.
    It would be great to see E-One Fire Apparatus build a 75' Midmount Platform for departments needing a smaller rig!...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Halligan84 View Post
    Regarding the KME picture, the leveling system will bring the truck level with all wheels off the ground. Once level KME teaches to lower the rig until at least one wheel touches the ground. I have never seen the jacks on the opposite side lift off the ground with ours, I have seen it on demos of quite a few makes including KME when we were testing various manufacturers.
    We were taught with our ladder, that all you need is the bulge out of the rear tires and the truck is then stable, once the bulge is gone the weight is transferred to the jacks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ladderhog View Post
    We were taught with our ladder, that all you need is the bulge out of the rear tires and the truck is then stable, once the bulge is gone the weight is transferred to the jacks.
    This is also our SOP with the new ALF Tower. I understand that KME teaches the lower one tire method when you are utilizing the "One button set-up" feature which basically raises the truck up to level on its own, which often leads to plenty of daylight under each tire, so bringing one down for contact is another point of contact.

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    RFD, your right. When you use the one button approach it usually leaves the rig way high. A few bumps on the Lower button and a tire is on the ground and you are at reasonable height. The auto level is one of the nicest things on that rig, its been flawless and set up time is greatly reduced from some of the other rigs we compared.

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    Thumbs up To: RFDACM02

    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    This is also our SOP with the new ALF Tower. I understand that KME teaches the lower one tire method when you are utilizing the "One button set-up" feature which basically raises the truck up to level on its own, which often leads to plenty of daylight under each tire, so bringing one down for contact is another point of contact.
    I have seen your departments new 93' ALF/LTI tower on a few web sites. It is one great looking apparatus,I like the black over red paint job . Is a different engine available on the ALF eagle, CUMMINS OR CAT! We would be interested in a 75' tower in the future. Good Luck & Stay Safe......

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    The Cat engine is available and soon the Cummins will be as well. We have 2 (100') on order with the 525hp Cat engine in them. Check with your dealer, they are delivering a ton of units with Cat motors.

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    Quote Originally Posted by canuck1 View Post
    actually, it looks like the outriggers are lifted as well...
    I saw that immediately, too...... but I think it might be a trick of the shadow under the rig.... outrigger is beyond it. Still, when you look close it still looks lifted.

    All this auto-level stuff.... pretty soon no one will know how to manually set up the tower any more. "What's that little tube with the bubble in it?". Going the way of the double-clutch and keeping the boiler stoked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NewJerseyFFII View Post
    I have seen your departments new 93' ALF/LTI tower on a few web sites. It is one great looking apparatus,I like the black over red paint job . Is a different engine available on the ALF eagle, CUMMINS OR CAT! We would be interested in a 75' tower in the future. Good Luck & Stay Safe......
    Thanks, we're pretty pleased. It has a Detriot 60 Series 515 HP. I think the Cummins is standard, but we went Detroit for standardization with the three engines.

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