1. #1
    Permanently Removed

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    22

    Default Eng Chauffer question. FDNY

    FDNY here. I have a question about the Pro Pressure Governor.

    When using booster tank water for trash or car fires, you dont need the Governor to necessarily be ENGAGED. You can leave it in idle and have plenty of pressure. i'm also in "pressure" mode.

    My question is this. The reading on the engine pressure gauge in the above situation reads about 120 psi, is this the pressure at the nozzle? Or is it lower? 120 seems like a lot of pressure for 1 line. I think someone said that in idle, the pressure is 60 psi. im confused about the IDLE situation.
    Any help is apprciated.
    Any other hints with the Governor is also appreciated.
    Thanks.

  2. #2
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    64

    Default

    I have no experience with your govoner....but would be almost certain that your pressure reading is straight off the discharge side of your pump and not at the nozzle. 120 psi does not sound to high as it would have nothing to do with the number of lines charged, only the amount of pressure created by your pump. If you are creating 120 psi at idle off of your booster tank you have a damn good pump. 60 psi seems more realistic.

    From what I remember about Am LaFr pressure matic water govoners is that they never have to be engaged in order to perform a pump operation. They are designed to protect the pump and the nozzleman, until it is engaged you have total control of the operation with your throttle.

    As far as what psi you should pump to this line depends upon many factors such as hose size, length, manufacturer and the same factors with your nozzle.

    P.S. your sop/sog may not require that you secure a water source for car or trash fires but it would be safe to keep that option available....prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

  3. #3
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Northeast Coast
    Posts
    3,862

    Default

    Also note that 120 may be the pressure throughout the system with the nozzle closed. I also am not familiar with the Pressure Govener ssyetm you have but I know that with no water flowing the pressure equalizes throughout the system.

  4. #4
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Cupcake NY
    Posts
    1,327

    Default

    First off, if you're new in the FDNY they would have taught you this in probie school, or better yet, ask your senior man, thats what he is there for. 120lbs at the outlet is nothing especially when we calculate friction loss of 1.75 inch hose as 15-20lbs per length. you have 4 lengths and you are already down to 60-80lbs of pressure and at the higher end of that (80) you wont have enough pressure to flow the optimum amount of water which is dictated in our books as having 50lbs at the nozzle for a 15/16" tip. If you have questions go get Engine Company Ops and read it read it read it read it and read it!

  5. #5
    Permanently Removed

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    22

    Default reply

    Johnny, if you're kind enough or anyone else, perhaps you can offer your expertise.
    Maybe i wasn't clear in my initial post.

    I'm trying to understand IDLE and what the psi is at idle. To me, it seems like it is stable at around 120-130psi whether water is flowing or not. The engine gauge on upper right corner of pump panel proves this.
    Is this really the IDLE pressure?
    If it is, then a trash fire requiring 4 lengths of 1 3/4 hose...i could leave the pumps in idle---50 psi (at nozzle)+ 80 psi (4 lengths) = 130 psi. In other words i dont have to engage the governor at all because at idle it is giving me the correct pressure...in this case about 130 psi.
    Am i interpreting this correctly?
    Or as one poster suggested...at idle the psi is more realistic at 60 psi.
    Thanks for helping.
    Btw, the books dont get this specific.

  6. #6
    Forum Member
    MemphisE34a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Memphis, TN - USA
    Posts
    2,526

    Default

    Matty, Fred, Nate.......any kind words for this lad? Seems like he is either bogus or not paying ANY attention.

    Could this guy possibly be for real???
    RK
    cell #901-494-9437

    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

  7. #7
    This space for rent
    NYSmokey's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Recently relocated to Baltimore County, MD
    Posts
    1,018

    Default

    Making an assumption that this is a Waterous pump we are talking about since I believe that's all your department buys. Also, is this a high rise pumper you are using? I'm not sure if that makes any difference but the more info you could give us about the equipment, the easier it will be to do the research.

    Oh and Johnnyirons is right
    Tom

    Never Forget 9-11-2001

    Stay safe out there!

    IACOJ Member

  8. #8
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    326

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FDNYbop View Post
    Johnny, if you're kind enough or anyone else, perhaps you can offer your expertise.
    Maybe i wasn't clear in my initial post.

    I'm trying to understand IDLE and what the psi is at idle. To me, it seems like it is stable at around 120-130psi whether water is flowing or not. The engine gauge on upper right corner of pump panel proves this.
    Is this really the IDLE pressure?
    If it is, then a trash fire requiring 4 lengths of 1 3/4 hose...i could leave the pumps in idle---50 psi (at nozzle)+ 80 psi (4 lengths) = 130 psi. In other words i dont have to engage the governor at all because at idle it is giving me the correct pressure...in this case about 130 psi.
    Am i interpreting this correctly?
    Or as one poster suggested...at idle the psi is more realistic at 60 psi.
    Thanks for helping.
    Btw, the books dont get this specific.
    When the line is charged, what does the gauge read for that particular discharge? It should read the same as the master pressure gauge if only one line is off and the discharge is fully open while flowing water. I am not sure what the Idle pressure is when having it in pressure mode. All our engines remain in "capacity" or "volume"....aka parallel mode. The idle pressure in that mode is about 60 PSI I believe.

  9. #9
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    2,029

    Default

    Dang buddy --- you are asking if the pdp is the same as on the tip? No offense but you seem to be clueless on the whole concept, if you are really serious get a good pump operator to set you down and start at square one, right down to the concept of swinging a 5 gallon bucket with a hole in the bottom round and round and work up from there.

  10. #10
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Brooklyn, New York
    Posts
    584

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a View Post
    Matty, Fred, Nate.......any kind words for this lad? Seems like he is either bogus or not paying ANY attention.

    Could this guy possibly be for real???

    I posted on the other "question" about the Multiversal.

  11. #11
    Forum Member
    johnny46's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    2,094

    Default

    Maybe this is one of those FDNY Online guys.

  12. #12
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    375

    Default

    Matty, Nate, Fred, Johnny- Do your probies learn how to pump during probie school or just the basics. Say enough to floor test a pump?

  13. #13
    Forum Member
    VinnieB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    On the couch in my skivvies
    Posts
    2,316

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GFDLT1 View Post
    Matty, Nate, Fred, Johnny- Do your probies learn how to pump during probie school or just the basics. Say enough to floor test a pump?

    Probies are taught the very basics. Put in pumps, water supply and get water flowing. They are also taught pressures.
    IACOJ Member

  14. #14
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Cupcake NY
    Posts
    1,327

    Default

    Here's a tip, when taking the sash of a window frame with a halligan in Zero visibility, be sure to NOT smash your fingers on the window gate, it really f'in hurts the next day! And if youre at a trash fire, pressure is not that much of an issue. It will almost not likely be an IDLH or a situation that will be life threatening. Pressure and water flows are important when operating in a fire in an enclosed place, not at a car fire (no lives endangered) or dumpster fire. I think you have the same problem I did when I first got to the firehouse, you were too anxious and wanted to do everything! That really screwed me, especially since it wasnt the busiest Engine with 3300 runs a year. Sit back and ask questions. Ask your senior man, if he doesnt know, ask an officer, if he doesnt know, have him ask someone, I highly doubt that they wont though. This job is changing drastically, the modernization of automobiles is probably partly to blame for it. Years ago guys would drag their ghetto cruisers in to the firehouse and fix them in between runs. Now the only guy that fix's his car is the one who drives one from the early 90's cause you do not need a computer to fix it! The days of looking at something to figure out how it works is over, and unfortunately most of our equipment is still very mechanical in nature. With the exception of the governor and the engine management controls of our rigs, the rest is all mechanical; meaning, you pull lever a get reaction a, add lever b to a and have a result that creates half the output due to double the volume. These basics are not taught to new firemen in NYC because of the complexity it could create to some new minds that are being presented with a million different things all at once, should it be? Darn right it should, but with that last test, ill be surprised if we will get guys that can show up to work on time :-(

  15. #15
    Forum Member
    backsteprescue123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    4,318

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FDNYbop View Post
    So in other words Matty...you have no logical answer to my question. And no knowledge on the subject and engine operations in general. Typical know it all truckie!
    Know this, i will be your boss someday and look forward to hammering your d**k flat.

    Um, pardon me, but not only are you new to the FDNY, but you are also new here. Matty is a well known and well respected poster on these forums. His knowledge has helped many people. Don't just come in here and think that because no one knows who you really are, you can talk all the crap you want to people. Especially such well respected and crusty Jakes such as Matty.


    Post Reported.
    ------------------------------------
    These opinions are mine and do not reflect the opinions of any organizations I am affiliated with.
    ------------------------------------

  16. #16
    Permanently Removed

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    22

    Default

    Well it looks like Matty has come across a topic that he hasn't a clue. Btw, he started the first jabs, i didn't. Read the multiversal thread and his unnecessary comments. I'd hardly call them respectful

    Quote Originally Posted by RFRDxplorer View Post
    Um, pardon me, but not only are you new to the FDNY, but you are also new here. Matty is a well known and well respected poster on these forums. His knowledge has helped many people. Don't just come in here and think that because no one knows who you really are, you can talk all the crap you want to people. Especially such well respected and crusty Jakes such as Matty.


    Post Reported.

  17. #17
    Forum Member
    backsteprescue123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    4,318

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FDNYbop View Post
    Well it looks like Matty has come across a topic that he hasn't a clue. Btw, he started the first jabs, i didn't. Read the multiversal thread and his unnecessary comments. I'd hardly call them respectful
    I'm not sure that I would call those comments unnecessary. And if you are just a probie, how can you tell a senior man what he knows or doesnt know.
    ------------------------------------
    These opinions are mine and do not reflect the opinions of any organizations I am affiliated with.
    ------------------------------------

  18. #18
    Permanently Removed

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    22

    Default

    Because he cannot answer the question, dont you think this senior man should know? Or is it easier for him to bash? hmmm?

    Quote Originally Posted by RFRDxplorer View Post
    I'm not sure that I would call those comments unnecessary. And if you are just a probie, how can you tell a senior man what he knows or doesnt know.

  19. #19
    Forum Member
    VinnieB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    On the couch in my skivvies
    Posts
    2,316

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FDNYbop View Post
    Well it looks like Matty has come across a topic that he hasn't a clue.

    I highly doubt that. As for the rest of that comment, the last I'd seen the "you started it" whining was in grammer school. So, grow up and try to be a man. If you are on the job, you would know that certain questions will get you chops broken, and most times its better to keep your mouth shut, unless ofcourse you work in a total F**k shop full of total ball bags. The multiversal comments, YOURs are truley PATHETIC. How can you go through probie school and NOT remember what to do if there is no substantial object. Your crack at matty about being a truckie...well tell you what Bop...if you are in an Engine and DON'T know what to do about no substantial object....then you are worthless. Here is ONE hint...it has something to do with the chian and hook on the front of the MV....think about it the next time you're in the TV room and toes up on the couch.

    My question to you is what does it matter what psi it is at transportations and rubbish fires? I know we don't really use any "math" for nousence fires, as long as the nozzle team isn't swinging in the air...theres just enough flow and psi...and btw what does you company use for rubbish?
    IACOJ Member

  20. #20
    Forum Member
    nyckftbl's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    On a Hill, overlooking George's Kingdom
    Posts
    2,578

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by VinnieB View Post
    and btw what does you company use for rubbish?

    ARFFF.

    Miss any more fires lately, jerk?
    Proud East Coast Traditionalist.

  21. #21
    Forum Member
    VinnieB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    On the couch in my skivvies
    Posts
    2,316

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    ARFFF.

    Miss any more fires lately, jerk?

    Actually....in my last 6 or so sets i've caught work and I ended yesterday with a job.....Sooo.....

    BTW...You can't 'miss' what you aren't working for. I didn't miss 238.....wasn't working for it.

    ps....Ball Bag
    IACOJ Member

  22. #22
    Forum Member
    nyckftbl's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    On a Hill, overlooking George's Kingdom
    Posts
    2,578

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FDNYbop View Post
    So in other words Matty...you have no logical answer to my question. And no knowledge on the subject and engine operations in general. Typical know it all truckie!
    Know this, i will be your boss someday and look forward to hammering your d**k flat.

    If you were on the job, which you clearly arent, you would know that even the BIGGEST POS wouldnt talk to a more senior man like that, no matter how much you "think" you know.

    Matty shouldnt have to provide you with a logical answer. Your question, besides being obscenely assinine, is something that should be handled in house, no matter where you work (or pretend to work).


    Hey Vinnie, my engine technically "missed the job" as well. Im sure the stories are already flying around the BX about the appearance of a 3 digit engine company up here. (Dont take offense Brooklyn guys, just a joke )
    Proud East Coast Traditionalist.

  23. #23
    Permanently Removed

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    22

    Default

    Wow Vinnie, I didn't think adults could spell and write so horribly! Are you kidding? Bro, go read a book and download spellcheck. I would comment on your post, but i don't want to have to reply to anymore of your retarded banter.
    You definitley, 100% for a fact got on the job before college credits were needed to get on the job. Too funny man.

  24. #24
    Forum Member
    VinnieB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    On the couch in my skivvies
    Posts
    2,316

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post


    Hey Vinnie, my engine technically "missed the job" as well. Im sure the stories are already flying around the BX about the appearance of a 3 digit engine company up here. (Dont take offense Brooklyn guys, just a joke )
    LOL...odd...because I think we have a few 3 digit companies in our area too?
    IACOJ Member

  25. #25
    Permanently Removed

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    22

    Default

    Yet another guy who cannot give me an intelligent answer to the pro pressure governor.
    Thank you for proving my point
    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    If you were on the job, which you clearly arent, you would know that even the BIGGEST POS wouldnt talk to a more senior man like that, no matter how much you "think" you know.

    Matty shouldnt have to provide you with a logical answer. Your question, besides being obscenely assinine, is something that should be handled in house, no matter where you work (or pretend to work).


    Hey Vinnie, my engine technically "missed the job" as well. Im sure the stories are already flying around the BX about the appearance of a 3 digit engine company up here. (Dont take offense Brooklyn guys, just a joke )

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. World Of Fire Report: 08-04-05
    By PaulBrown in forum World of Fire Daily Report
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 08-06-2005, 09:25 AM
  2. World Of Fire Report: 12-20-04
    By PaulBrown in forum World of Fire Daily Report
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12-31-2004, 09:39 PM
  3. World Of Fire Report: 03-27-04
    By PaulBrown in forum World of Fire Daily Report
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-28-2004, 03:51 PM
  4. World Of Fire Report: 01-10-04
    By PaulBrown in forum World of Fire Daily Report
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-12-2004, 11:12 PM
  5. World Of Fire Report: 11-23-03
    By PaulBrown in forum World of Fire Daily Report
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-23-2003, 08:41 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register