1. #1
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    Question Random thoughts out...Rules of Engagement in?

    Although this deals with the competitions magazine...

    How many of you will continue to read the back page of FE's monthy issue as before?

    After the last months Editor's tourtured molestation of one of, if not the most famous quote from Chief Edward F. Croker in his attempt to somehow justify fire based EMS and how Chief Croker even felt that EMS was sooo engrained and deep seated in the traditions of the Fire Department and how EMS is a natural extension of our job and closely related to it.(it isn't) I can't help but think that magazine's best days are behind it.

    Recent articles which were either so basic as to be insulting to a regular reader...(One suggested as some important safety points when working on the top of the Engine appratus was to look where you climb and don't get hit by the stream of the deluge gun! ) Or were completely irrelevant or much to accademic as to be any value to any fireman or Chief in the field.

    How can one go from reading and learning from the real world hands on experiences and wisdom of a Capt. Tom Brennan to that of some self-promoting bueracrat who has spent his entire career trying to convince everyone he knows how to run your FD when he didn't even bother to lead his own. I'm sure Chief Bruno knows the "In-Basket and Out-Basket" really well and I imagine we could all learn alot about the finer points of putting together power point presentations or how to reload a swingline stapler...but I until now thought mags like FD and FireEng were targeted towards firemen and what they needed to know to keep themselves alive. Things that everyone could trust that Tom Brennan had done first hand a 1000 times.

    It wasn't long ago I felt that Firehouse had really slipped into becoming nothing more than a Buff mag and that Fire Engineering offered some relevant tips, discussion and suggestions on fireground operations...today I think that perhaps they are begining to exchange places.

    What are everyones thoughts?

    FTM-PTB
    Last edited by FFFRED; 02-01-2007 at 01:09 PM.

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    What are everyones thoughts?
    1) I agree

    2) You'll probably get slapped by the webteam for dissing B again.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    1) I agree

    2) You'll probably get slapped by the webteam for dissing B again.

    Oh you remember that....

    FTM-PTB

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    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED View Post
    Oh you remember that....

    FTM-PTB
    I remember WWFFD? What Would Firefighter Fred Do?

    I used to go right to the back of the magazine when I was subscriber. Tom Brennan could put things into terms that made sense. Not a lot of mumbo jumbo. Just a firefighter talking to firefighters. I was thinking about renewing my subscription. If the person I think took over that part of the magazine, I will opt out.
    Last edited by NYSmokey; 01-31-2007 at 03:59 PM. Reason: punctuation
    Tom

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    I still feel they put a better mag together. More on tactics, development and apparatus stuff that I can actually use. I'll keep resubbing.

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    Tom Brennan can not be replaced and we will probably never see anyone who comes close to his abilities based on experience and tactics. I have not been a big fan of the new back page writter, but I a going to give him a chance. Tom seemed to like him, or at least liked to argue with him. I personally liked the tactical aspect of Tom's writting (even if I had to read some of it several times before I got the point.) Let's see what happens. The magazine still puts out great tactical articles most months. Also understand that the guys writting for them sometimes are required to "change" some of there real-world writting to satisfy their legal concerns at PennWell.

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    Default just not the same anymore...

    FFFRED, I couldn't agree with you more. I remember talking to Tom B. on the phone on many occasions regarding tactics, questions regarding promotion and union issues. I often told him he has to publish a book that contained ALL of his Random Thoughts through the years. He laughingly said that I wasn't the first one to mention that and all his peer have been bugging him about it for awhile. I think a book should still be assembled that contained all of his "random thoughts" just as he published them and do it in memory of his contributions to the fire service. Maybe a percentage of sales could go toward a charity that he would have wanted to contribute to within the fire service. Who knows? I do miss those articles. I saved dozens of them and often go through them on shift sometimes just as simple reminders of what we can do on a daily basis to make our tour go that much smoother. We miss you brother! God Bless!

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    Man, I sure do miss reading Tom Brennan's column every month, I'm another one who read every issue of FE starting at the back page. Tom had a wealth of knowledge and experience which he shared freely in a down-to-earth style.
    I too have long thought of FH as a buff magazine. In my opinion, FE is a still a better publication for the nuts and bolts, bread and butter type articles. I'll have to pay closer attention to the content issues mentioned with FE, if their editiorial standards have dropped that would be a shame.

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    Truly a sad turn of events for the back page of FE. But as stated above, still a few decent columns and articles on tactics from mostly decent authors with less fluff than others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    Truly a sad turn of events for the back page of FE. But as stated above, still a few decent columns and articles on tactics from mostly decent authors with less fluff than others.
    I also thought the same thing. Its not going to be the first page I read anymore.

  11. #11
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    Beside the fact that I agree with Fred-
    What is the over/under odds on Fred getting a purple hydrant award?
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum View Post
    Beside the fact that I agree with Fred-
    What is the over/under odds on Fred getting a purple hydrant award?

    Well, he first has to sign up in the IACOJ...
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Well lets make a list. Who are some people that we would enjoy or like to see on the back cover besides Bruno and his the bum in the gutter is my important customer crap. What big name instructors or lecturers do we want to hear from?

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    Quote Originally Posted by GFDLT1 View Post
    Well lets make a list. Who are some people that we would enjoy or like to see on the back cover besides Bruno and his the bum in the gutter is my important customer crap. What big name instructors or lecturers do we want to hear from?
    For what it's worth, I'll throw a couple of names out there just to get the ball rolling -- Vincent Dunn and John Norman. Now the disclaimer: I have no idea about their personal situations, or if it's something they would be interested in doing.
    I have subscribed to FE for over 20 years and IMO the chief from the desert is at the bottom of the list of fire chief's I want to hear from; seems to me he is the polar opposite of Tom Brennan. I think FFFRED summed it up pretty well:
    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED
    How can one go from reading and learning from the real world hands on experiences and wisdom of a Capt. Tom Brennan to that of some self-promoting bueracrat who has spent his entire career trying to convince everyone he knows how to run your FD when he didn't even bother to lead his own. I'm sure Chief Bruno knows the "In-Basket and Out-Basket" really well and I imagine we could all learn alot about the finer points of putting together power point presentations or how to reload a swingline stapler...but I until now thought mags like FD and FireEng were targeted towards firemen and what they needed to know to keep themselves alive. Things that everyone could trust that Tom Brennan had done first hand a 1000 times.
    We all knew that Tom would be dearly missed, but what a sad state of affairs.
    Last edited by BackstepFF; 02-01-2007 at 01:10 PM.

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    Here ya go Smokey:



    And no, it's not a Photoshop.

    It's a shield from West Wauregan which is a company we merged with 12 years ago.

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    Thanks Dal. Hopefully we'll never need to break that bad boy out
    Tom

    Never Forget 9-11-2001

    Stay safe out there!

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    Good stuff.

    FTM-PTB

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    Thumbs up

    why not just keep running Tom's work over and over?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BackstepFF View Post
    For what it's worth, I'll throw a couple of names out there just to get the ball rolling -- Vincent Dunn and John Norman. Now the disclaimer: I have no idea about their personal situations, or if it's something they would be interested in doing.
    I have subscribed to FE for over 20 years and IMO the chief from the desert is at the bottom of the list of fire chief's I want to hear from; seems to me he is the polar opposite of Tom Brennan. I think FFFRED summed it up pretty well: We all knew that Tom would be dearly missed, but what a sad state of affairs.
    It will be hard to fill Tom Brennan's shoes.

    Chief John Norman recently retired from the FDNY, Chief Vinny Dunn has been out for a few years.

    I would like to see a column done on a rotating basis between Dunn, Norman, Billy Goldfeder and yes, even Bruno (while I don't agree with everything he's done, he has been an innovator). I saw a video clip of "Bruno and Brennan unplugged"... they got along and while they had different views on acheiving it, the goal was always the same... everyone goes home... and that's what it's all about.
    Last edited by CaptainGonzo; 02-02-2007 at 01:17 PM. Reason: spelling error correction
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    It will be hard to fill Tom Brennan's shoes.

    Chief John Norman recently retired from the FDNY, Chief Vinny Dunn has been out for a few years.

    I would like to see a column done on a rotating basis between Dunn, Norman, Billy Goldfeder and yes, even Bruno (while I don't aree with everything he's done, he has been an innovator). I saw a video clip of "Bruno and Brennan unplugged"... they got along and while they had different viewson acheiving it, the goal was always the same... everyone goes home... and that's what it's all about.
    My issue is that I don't subscribe to that guys methods or ideas and therefore I'm not sure I want to continue to subscribe to a magazine that gives that dope any more "air-time" than he already gets from himself.

    Perhaps I'm in the minority, however I'll bet there is a signifigant portion of their readership they just alienated.

    And also let me say, the man doesn't have to be from my dept. I'm sure there are some well spoken, intelligent and expereinced men from a number of departments out there. I have to say that AB isn't even on my long list of guys I would like to hear from.

    Personally I plan on writing a letter, not so that it is printed but to tell them I'm far from happy with their choice. I hope others who feel the same will do so as well.

    FTM-PTB

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    Fred- Who would you like to learn from? Like you said I am sure there are guys from other busy areas that have a wealth of knowledge to share.


    37Truck- I agree, I think it would be nice to see all of Brennan's articles rerun. There are a lot of firefighters out there that are just getting into this profession that didn't get to read his stuff. And while it is sad that he is gone, the buildings that he warned us about and construction features are still very much around and a threat to us.

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    I could be mistaken but I always assumed FE was of an East coast mentality. I agreee FE has gone down hill and sometimes I would just read Brennans article and that was it. I think Ill just renew my subsription to WNYF. No offense to anyone on the forums here, but a few years ago Brennan would come into the Tactics forum here and it was really great. The quality and depth of discussions about real-world topics being discussed here has greatly diminished from then until now.

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    "Everyone goes home."

    That's not good enough. That can be fulfilled by going defensive every time. That can be fulfilled by pure dumb luck. It's an empty feel good phrase. I hear it used most often after the discussion of something that went wrong, even if everything else went right. It's a band-aid.

    We do our job right and to the best of our ability and hopefully everyone goes home.

    I'm sure the intent of that statement isn't bad. I'm sure it assumes a decent fire attack and competence from the firefighters, but it's a favorite of people who go defensive at the dro pof a hat or open the nozzle immediately on entering, don't ventilate, don't work, etcetera. It isn't enough that everyone goes home. They should be able to go home proud.

    There's the flip side. If I do one thing wrong, it bugs me, even if it's insignificant. One little screw up eats at me. I have to talk it out and go over my skills repeatedly when I gaffe. It can ruin my shift if I don't get a handle on it. Mistakes are bad, and we should pay attention to our weaknesses, but we shouldn't obsess over them any more than we should ignore them.

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    EXCELLENT post Johnny46!
    RK
    cell #901-494-9437

    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

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    I don't think I will stop reading the magazine because of the last page, but I won't be opening the magazine backwards anymore, thats for sure.

    I couldnt agree more with johnny, the whole concept of the safety generation firefighter is eating away at me. If you dont go home dirty, tired and knowing you put forth everything you had, whats the point of bothering? Anyone can spray water in the windows, we need to get in it to win it.

    I did hope to see someone like Salka, Norman, Tracy, Dunn, McGrail, Gustin etc.

    Do we need to build a wall to keep those funky westerners out???
    Last edited by MG3610; 02-03-2007 at 07:37 PM.

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