1. #1
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    California and Utah
    Posts
    16

    Default Research Assistance Request

    I am a graduate student conducting research on consolidated public safety departments in the United States, wherein the agency cross-trains personnel to perform law enforcement and fire suppression duties. If you know of any such agencies, would you be kind enough to post the name of the agency and the state in which it is located.

    I know this is a controversial issue, but this is strictly a research project, and there is no intent to initiate a debate on the merits or disadvantages of such organizations.

    Thanks

    BEESEA

  2. #2
    Forum Member
    gunnyv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    SE MI
    Posts
    1,435

    Default

    Michigan:

    Kalamazoo
    Fraser
    Oak Park
    City of Grosse Pointe
    Grosse Pointe Park
    Grosse Pointe Woods
    Village of Grosse Pointe
    Grosse Pointe Shores

    Plenty more, just can't think of them now. Highland Park used to be but went to separate FD and Sheriff Dept coverage.

    I know you aren't looking for opinions, but I can't mention them without saying i think it's a lousy system that shortchanges proper Fire and EMS work.

  3. #3
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    California and Utah
    Posts
    16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gunnyv View Post
    Michigan:

    Kalamazoo
    Fraser
    Oak Park
    City of Grosse Pointe
    Grosse Pointe Park
    Grosse Pointe Woods
    Village of Grosse Pointe
    Grosse Pointe Shores

    Plenty more, just can't think of them now. Highland Park used to be but went to separate FD and Sheriff Dept coverage.

    I know you aren't looking for opinions, but I can't mention them without saying i think it's a lousy system that shortchanges proper Fire and EMS work.
    Thanks, Gunny, I have these and a lot more from Michigan. Seems Michigan is the public safety department capital of the nation. Probably has something to do with the fact that Grosse Pointe Shores started the first public safety department in 1911, and it spread from there.

    I understand your feelings. I just don't want to start an angry debate here, so I am doing everything possible to keep it neutral. This whole project is nothing more than part of the research phase of my Master's Thesis.

    Since you appear to be in Michigan, here is the list I have so far. If you can think of any I don't have, I would greatly appreciate a post.

    Albion Department Of Public Safety
    Berkley Department Of Public Safety
    Beverly Hills Department of Public Safety
    Blackman Township Department Of Public Safety
    Bloomfield Hills Department Of Public Safety
    Centerline Department Of Public Safety
    Cheboygan Department Of Public Safety
    East Grand Rapids Department Of Public Safety
    Emmett Township Department Of Public Safety
    Escanaba Department Of Public Safety
    Essexville Department Of Public Safety
    Farmington Department Of Public Safety
    Fraser Department Of Public Safety
    Gladstone Department Of Public Safety
    Grand Haven Department Of Public Safety
    Greenville Department Of Public Safety
    Grosse Pointe Department Of Public Safety
    Grosse Pointe Farms Department Of Public Safety
    Grosse Pointe Park Department Of Public Safety
    Grosse Pointe Shores Department Of Public Safety
    Grosse Pointe Woods Police Department
    Huntington Woods Department Of Public Safety
    Ionia Department Of Public Safety
    Ironwood Department Of Public Safety
    Kalamazoo Department Of Public Safety
    Kingsford Department Of Public Safety
    Manistique Department Of Public Safety
    Oak Park Department Of Public Safety
    Petoskey Department Of Public Safety
    Plainwell Department Of Public Safety
    Springfield Department Department Of Public Safety

  4. #4
    MembersZone Subscriber
    ullrichk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Deleted by the forum gremlins
    Posts
    1,663

    Default

    At one time Smyrna, Tennessee had cross-trained LEO/FF, but I don't know if they still do.
    ullrichk
    a.k.a.
    perfesser

    a ship in a harbor is safe. . . but that's not what ships are for

  5. #5
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    2 miles past sane 3 miles before crazy
    Posts
    288

    Default

    Bluegrass Airport in Lexington, KY has cross-trained LEO/FF's
    The opinions I post to these forums do not represent any entity to which I am affiliated.

  6. #6
    Forum Member
    allineedisu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    618

    Thumbs down

    A PSO May work in a small town but in lager cities where the FD and Police have union contracts, it is not there and will never be there,

    I am not for pso's, as a cop can't fight a fire if he or she is investigating a mva! and a firefighter can't stop firghting a fire and respond to a hold up alarm.

    It is just not a pratctical operation.
    OUTSTANDING

    Make It Happen

    Never forget 9-11-2001
    343 Brothers Who Were MURDERED!!

  7. #7
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    California and Utah
    Posts
    16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ullrichk View Post
    At one time Smyrna, Tennessee had cross-trained LEO/FF, but I don't know if they still do.
    Thanks, ullrichk, I went to their wedsite, and it is apparent they have deconsolidated. There are six PSO's left, probably from the past structure, but the rest are either fire or police.

  8. #8
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    California and Utah
    Posts
    16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ccfdblehman View Post
    Bluegrass Airport in Lexington, KY has cross-trained LEO/FF's
    Thank you, sir, I will check it out.

  9. #9
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    California and Utah
    Posts
    16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by allineedisu View Post
    A PSO May work in a small town but in lager cities where the FD and Police have union contracts, it is not there and will never be there.
    Interesting statement. Regarding population, where do you think the transistion from a small town to a large city begins? How do you define a large city?

    Next, how would a union contract prevent the formation of a public safety agency once the contract had expired and the city decided to change the working conditions of its fire and police personnel?

    Finally, are you aware of the new public safety law in Illinois?

  10. #10
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    249

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ullrichk View Post
    At one time Smyrna, Tennessee had cross-trained LEO/FF, but I don't know if they still do.
    Ullrichk, there a quite a few im Tennessee. A couple that come to mind are Kingston Springs, Johnson City

  11. #11
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    California and Utah
    Posts
    16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lieutenant387 View Post
    Ullrichk, there a quite a few im Tennessee. A couple that come to mind are Kingston Springs, Johnson City
    Johnson City deconsolidated in July of 2005, leaving only Kingston Springs and Jonesborough that I can find. If you know of any others in Tennessee, EL TEE, I would appreciate the information.

  12. #12
    Forum Member
    gunnyv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    SE MI
    Posts
    1,435

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by allineedisu View Post
    A PSO May work in a small town but in lager cities where the FD and Police have union contracts, it is not there and will never be there.

    Usually the city offers a 10-20% raise to the cops to take on the fire duties. The cops are happy to take the extra cash, and since they usually far outnumber the firefighters, the city will threaten to lay off the firemen, offer buyouts for the ones closest to retirement, or let them stay as apparatus drivers.

    Here's proof that the police work takes precedence-from the Kalamazoo Public Safety Officer Job announcement. There are no fire related promotion opportunities mentioned:

    "Promotional opportunities include: Detective, Canine Handler, Community Policing Officer, Crime Lab Technician, Honor Guard, Bomb Squad and Tactical Response Unit."

  13. #13
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    90

    Default

    In Ohio:

    Village of Oakwood (Suburb of Dayton)

    Amberly Village (Suburb of Cincinnati)

  14. #14
    MembersZone Subscriber
    ullrichk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Deleted by the forum gremlins
    Posts
    1,663

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BEESEA View Post
    Johnson City deconsolidated in July of 2005, leaving only Kingston Springs and Jonesborough that I can find. If you know of any others in Tennessee, EL TEE, I would appreciate the information.
    How about the Nashville Airport? SgtScott31 posted this.
    ullrichk
    a.k.a.
    perfesser

    a ship in a harbor is safe. . . but that's not what ships are for

  15. #15
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    California and Utah
    Posts
    16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by spegram View Post
    In Ohio:

    Village of Oakwood (Suburb of Dayton)

    Amberly Village (Suburb of Cincinnati)
    Thanks, I have these. They are the only two in Ohio, according to the Amberley Village website. Oakwood Public Safety was formed in 1924, which makes it the second oldest public safety agency in the U.S.

  16. #16
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    California and Utah
    Posts
    16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ullrichk View Post
    How about the Nashville Airport? SgtScott31 posted this.
    I have it on my list of possibles. I just haven't had a chance to research it yet. I have benn dealing with extremely pressing matters today, and I am still not done collecting from the chumps that lost to me on the superbowl. :-)

  17. #17
    MembersZone Subscriber
    NorcalMike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Red voter in a Blue State
    Posts
    93

    Default

    Sunnyvale, CA in the South Bay used to have PSO's. Not sure if they still do.

  18. #18
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Pa Wilds
    Posts
    598

    Default old guy

    Been 20 yrs since I toured the D/FW airport complex. but back then it was manned by a driver/engineer and an officer for each piece. At alarms the police went to the scene with TOG in each officers patrol car trunk.

  19. #19
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    California and Utah
    Posts
    16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mjteague View Post
    Sunnyvale, CA in the South Bay used to have PSO's. Not sure if they still do.
    There were five agencies in California up until last year. Brisbane, Lemoore, Marina, Rohnert Park, and Sunnyvale. Only Rohnert Park and Sunnyvale continue with the concept; the rest have deconsolidated.

  20. #20
    MembersZone Subscriber
    MalahatTwo7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Loco madidus effercio in rutilus effercio.
    Posts
    12,837

    Default

    The Township of Esquimalt (located adjacent to Victoria) British Columbia was a cross-trained fire and LEO station until about 4 years ago. The only reason why they are no longer fire/LEO responders any more is because the Township emergency services were absorbed by the City of Victoria, and of course the unions would not allow cross-training.

    By all accounts the system worked well there. They did split shifts - two days as fire, two days as LEO, and all seemed to like it a great deal. There was a lot of outcry from the Township and from the Members when they were ordered to "disband" as a combined unit. There was a lot more to this story, but its been a while, suffice to say that there were a lot of unhappy folks when the change was forced upon them.
    If you don't do it RIGHT today, when will you have time to do it over? (Hall of Fame basketball player/coach John Wooden)

    "I may be slow, but my work is poor." Chief Dave Balding, MVFD

    "Its not Rocket Science. Just use a LITTLE imagination." (Me)

    Get it up. Get it on. Get it done!

    impossible solved cotidie. miracles postulo viginti - quattuor hora animadverto

    IACOJ member: Cheers, Play safe y'all.

  21. #21
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    28

    Default

    Morganton, NC Is PSO

  22. #22
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    California and Utah
    Posts
    16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ftmptb212 View Post
    Morganton, NC Is PSO
    Thank you, very much. I already have Morganton, but I appreciate your response, nonetheless.

  23. #23
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    California and Utah
    Posts
    16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MalahatTwo7 View Post
    The Township of Esquimalt (located adjacent to Victoria) British Columbia was a cross-trained fire and LEO station until about 4 years ago. The only reason why they are no longer fire/LEO responders any more is because the Township emergency services were absorbed by the City of Victoria, and of course the unions would not allow cross-training.

    By all accounts the system worked well there. They did split shifts - two days as fire, two days as LEO, and all seemed to like it a great deal. There was a lot of outcry from the Township and from the Members when they were ordered to "disband" as a combined unit. There was a lot more to this story, but its been a while, suffice to say that there were a lot of unhappy folks when the change was forced upon them.
    Your information is very interesting and exactly opposite of the norm. In conducting my research, I have found that unless the department was originally formed as a public safety agency, there is significant turmoil and anger from both the unions and citizens if a political jurisdiction tries to create a consolidated department, as in your example of the unions in Victoria. Additionally, even if a department was public safety from the start, I have never discovered any examples where there were unhappy people when a public safety agency was disbanded.

    A perfect example of the turmoil and anger regarding the attempted formation of public safety agencies is found in Illinois state law. To make a long story short, the City of Bensenville near Chicago tried to form a public safety department a few years ago. The Illinois AAFI was successful in their efforts to have a law passed that prohibits cities in Illinois from ever again creating public safety departments. Two cities that already had public safety departments were exempted.

    Although your example is not in the United States, I will contact the Township of Esquimalt and see what I can further discover on this issue. It is of interest to me in that it is not normal and is worthy of further research.

    Thank you, very much.

  24. #24
    MembersZone Subscriber
    MalahatTwo7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Loco madidus effercio in rutilus effercio.
    Posts
    12,837

    Default

    BeeSea you probably already found these, but anyhow:

    www.esquimalt.ca

    www.esquimalt.ca/Fire/history.htm (this is the "big one" LOL)

    www.vancouverisland.com/Regions/towns/?townID=20

    I worked in the Dockyard located at the very end of Esquimalt Rd, and lived in the Victoria/Esquimalt/Saanich areas most of my life. Any questions you have about the locale in general, I'd be happy to answer. Respctfrmcalgary is currently in the area too, so she will have greater "new" local information - I've been away just a bit too long.
    Last edited by MalahatTwo7; 02-06-2007 at 02:00 PM.
    If you don't do it RIGHT today, when will you have time to do it over? (Hall of Fame basketball player/coach John Wooden)

    "I may be slow, but my work is poor." Chief Dave Balding, MVFD

    "Its not Rocket Science. Just use a LITTLE imagination." (Me)

    Get it up. Get it on. Get it done!

    impossible solved cotidie. miracles postulo viginti - quattuor hora animadverto

    IACOJ member: Cheers, Play safe y'all.

  25. #25
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    644

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ccfdblehman View Post
    Bluegrass Airport in Lexington, KY has cross-trained LEO/FF's
    They handle ARFF at the airport. They also do EMS first response and hazmat first response on the airport grounds. Great bunch of guys to work with.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. World Of Fire Report: 10-21-05
    By PaulBrown in forum World of Fire Daily Report
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-24-2005, 08:34 AM
  2. Request fo Assistance (Chris Kangas)
    By BrookhavenFD in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 06-07-2004, 03:13 AM
  3. Missing Equipment- Request for Assistance
    By hosehead88 in forum Pennsylvania
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 11-30-2003, 01:37 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register