I have a Sam Houston and used to have a New Yorker, now I am looking at the Phenix leather that San Fran and some others use. It looks to have a more traditional shape than the modern Sams. I would never consider those awful Paul Conway knock offs, but my question is, if you could take the four leather helmets on the market and peel the layers away, how different would they be?
As far as I know, the Conway is a fiberglass helmet with leather wrapped around it; it even has a rubber brim trim strip. I don't even consider it a real leather. The Phenix has the innards of a regular helmet in a free standing leather shell and I think the Sam is the same way. How does the New Yorker differ under the leather? Am I mistaken about the Phenix and the Sam? Does anyone really know?
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Thread: leather helmet comparison
02-04-2007, 02:51 PM #1
leather helmet comparisonIn time
02-04-2007, 03:31 PM #2
Here is a idea. Since you know that makers of the helmets that you are trying to find out information on, do a google search on those companies and see what they have on their web pages to say about their own helmets. This way you get it right from the company that makes them and then you can't go wrong.
By the way, I still love my old leather New Yorker, that I once wore.OUTSTANDING
Make It Happen
Never forget 9-11-2001
343 Brothers Who Were MURDERED!!
02-04-2007, 04:02 PM #3
Already done that, none of it gives the info I am looking for. What I really want to know, is how far from the Conway leather-on-a-fiberglass helmet knockoff the Sams, Phenixes, and New Yorkers really are. And likewise, how far from the old New Yorkers, that really were just leather, the Phenixes and Sams really are.In time
02-04-2007, 04:35 PM #4
- Join Date
- Jul 1999
- Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
The Sammy is an NFPA approved leather shelled helmet with an impact cap. The shell is completely leather.
The N5A is an OSHA approved leather shelled helmet with a different style of liner that only meets OSHA and not NFPA. This too has a completely leather shell.
I am unfamiliar with the Phenix helmet.
Please sit down before you read the following. I have owned both an N5A of the style with no liner (loved it wish I could still use it) and a Sammy (Heavy and to me not very comfortable) so I can speak from experience on them. I liked both of them but will most likely never buy another one. They are simply ridiuclously priced these days. I own a Ben II, a Chieftan traditional and an older Morning Pride traditional and they all are lighter and more comfortable to wear and all of them cost less than $200. No they aren't leather and if you have to have leather they won't do. But to me at this point I have far better uses for my money than to spend between $400 and $500 dollars for a helmet just so I can say a cow died to protect me. If I offended any of you traditionalists sorry about that, but with the money I saved I was able to buy a Gut Belt and some tools for my pocket and a better flashlight. I guess it is all about what is most important to you alone.
02-04-2007, 11:32 PM #5
I believe that Fireman4949 was looking into the Phenix leather lid....... pagin Kevin.... Kevin to the leather helmet comparison........------------------------------------
These opinions are mine and do not reflect the opinions of any organizations I am affiliated with.
02-05-2007, 12:06 AM #6
Hark! Did I hear my name being called?
Yeah, I just ordered a Phenix 1500TL2 Leather. It should be here in a few weeks.
The TL2 has an all leather shell, just like the Cairns lids. Not a leather cover over a composite shell like the Paul Conway American Heritage.
The weight of the Phenix is significantly less than the N6A's I have. My current N6A if I recall correctly, is 77 oz. The TL2 is only 55 oz.
I've worn leather lids exclusively for the past 11, or 12 years. This will be my first venture away from Cairns. I'm very curious to see what I will think of the TL2 in comparison. I'll be sure to let you know once it arrives.
Also, now that I'm spending several hours a week teaching in our live burn facility, I have also just purchased a Paul Conway American Classic (composite) to wear ONLY while teaching. I have said that I would never wear anything but cow again, but I don't want to unnecessarily cook another leather if I don't have to! Besides, the custom painted Bob Stella shield that I use on my duty lid doesn't come cheap either
As a side note, I found out when I ordered the TL2, that Phenix will refurbish, or, if necessary, completely replace the helmet if it becomes damaged while conducting firefighting activities, for a period of 5 years from the purchase date. That's a pretty good warranty.
02-05-2007, 12:08 AM #7
I'd love to hear how the Phenix turns out for you, they really look sharp on the outside at least. I don't know anyone who has one and not many more who have heard of them. I know they're big out west, but I guess they haven't made it to Texas. I called out there and talked to their guys a few months ago with some questions, but then put the whole project on hold. I was very impressed with the personal touch of the operation, they actually put me through to the owners, who also operate the place. I'm kinda disenchanted with the MSA giant that has subsumed Cairns.In time
02-05-2007, 12:38 AM #8
02-05-2007, 12:52 PM #9
I can't believe the Cali-boose hasn't chimed in on this one.Oh Bou,where are you hidin' ,T.C.
02-05-2007, 01:30 PM #10
02-05-2007, 03:00 PM #11"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY
02-06-2007, 12:56 PM #12
- Join Date
- Dec 2004
- Kansas City, MO
One thing I notice is a Cairns is boiled in Resin to the point that the whole thing is encased in a shell that after heating up over several fires breaks away. The Phenix allows more flex and can take the heat alot better. I know our academy instructor swore by his and he was in a number of strong live burns and also in the field putting it through it's paces.
I'm a Phenix Fan, but leather is nice either way.
02-06-2007, 02:47 PM #13
I'm hesitant to go with the Phenix leather right now. A few years back a department on the east coast I worked at wore those damn Phenix LA Style helmets. I'll admit they were light, but you couldn't put anything on your helmet without throwing it out of balance and have it lean to one side. The other thing is the suspension sucks (In my opinion). I got the worst headaches after wearing those helmets. They had little padding around the plastic suspension peices and put pressure on my head in all the wrong places. So, just try it before you buy it..... I'm not saying it's a bad helmet, it just doesn't work on my pea sized head
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