1. #51
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    Cool Scary.....

    Just forwarded the link to our Deputy Chief of my Career Department...... Since the PASS it showed them take apart is the exact type that we use here.

    Now onto another issue I have seen here...... Why is there such a Vollie/Career battle that occurs here.

    Part of being a "Professional" is being able to listen to another persons opinions and respect their opinion...... If you don't agree then that is your right, but to criticize somebody for their opinion is ridiculous and I stopped doing that in Elementary School.

    So how about people like myself I am a full-time Husband and Dad...... I am a Career Engineer for a locally well respected Department, a Paid-Call for a very large Department and the newest member of a Volunteer Department (to help train the Vollies and be able to respond to emergencies....... the whole extra experience line of thinking and lead by example)? A "Mutt" that maybe..... and that's your opinion. My family and the people I serve don't agree with you, so that makes you the minority............. hhmmmmm

    I challenge those that prefer to "bash" Vollies and ask them how much energy is spent "bashing" and how much energy is spent bringing them up to a standard they feel is acceptable.

    "Professional" isn't just a person who gets a paycheck......... It's more than that, it's how we live our lives as well....... Remember, we represent the job 24/7.

    For those Vollie Bashers who work Career and lucked-out on getting hired on a Department the first few times they tested........ You are the rareity, not the Volunteers. They (we've) been around long before you lucky few have been around. I'm not going to be ignorant and say that all Volunteer Departments run like they should but if you don't like how they run...... then help 'em. Actions speak louder than words.
    "Be LOUD, Be PROUD..... It just might save your can someday when goin' through an intersection!!!!!"

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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by hfd326 View Post
    No FFFRED you called Schmidt a "volly chief" from "Upperstraw Bottom USA" and a "clown". You also strongly implied that he doesn't understand "operational procedures, and assigned duties, and responsibilities". As for NIOSH reports being usless after reading their handbook I can see why that would be true. Let alone how they actual seem to run investigations, which is even worse. I sounds like most of the dont have fire experience, and as I said earlier the investigators NEED fire fighting experience.

    No read again guy, I wasn't refering to that, I was refering to a different post. Since you lack adequate reading comprehension and brought this guy Schmidt up in conversation, where did he work?(and by that, I mean earn a living to support his family, not volly) and how many years did he spend in whatever ranks he held and in what companies?

    FTM-PTB

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    Tell us, Fred, just who WOULD you cooperate with? Obviously investigators from your FD and your union, but anyone else?
    Anyone who my Department and Union view as competent and qualifed to pass judgement on any particular subject matter. Thats who.

    As of yet, I haven't seen proof that these buearcrats meet that standard.

    FTM-PTB
    Last edited by FFFRED; 02-11-2007 at 06:07 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED View Post
    Anyone who my Department and Union view as competant and qualifed to pass judgement on any particular subject matter. Thats who.

    As of yet, I haven't seen proof that these buearcrats meet that standard.

    FTM-PTB
    Judging from your past posts, that would be an investigation team made up only of members from your department who are union members, correct?

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    Judging from your past posts, that would be an investigation team made up only of members from your department who are union members, correct?
    My posts are more than clear enough.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED View Post
    My posts are more than clear enough.

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    Exactly!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED View Post
    No read again guy, I wasn't refering to that, I was refering to a different post. Since you lack adequate reading comprehension and brought this guy Schmidt up in conversation, where did he work?(and by that, I mean earn a living to support his family, not volly) and how many years did he spend in whatever ranks he held and in what companies?

    FTM-PTB
    FFFred.. the answer is here... posted by Grit76

    To set the record straight, Schmidt started as a volunteer in PG - I helped to train him. He went on to become a career firefighter, rising to the rank of captain. Served in both operations & prevention. Let's try not to bash a guy that sacrificed much to shed light on something that will help all firefighters.
    What was that comment on reading comprehension?
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    FFFred.. the answer is here... posted by Grit76

    What was that comment on reading comprehension?
    Here we go, my orginal response to this guy hfd326:
    Quote Originally Posted by me
    No read again guy, I wasn't refering to that, I was refering to a different post. Since you lack adequate reading comprehension and brought this guy Schmidt up in conversation, where did he work?(and by that, I mean earn a living to support his family, not volly) and how many years did he spend in whatever ranks he held and in what companies?
    How does your reply answer my question? I don't know where he worked(we know vaugely where he vollied), what companies he served in and for how many years in such ranks, how much work he saw...etc. furthermore how are promotions done in his dept? Are they civil service or are they based on patronage and azz-kissing as much of the US and vollies depts are handled?

    Once again for the slow guys, Because he brought it up, I would want to know Dept, companies and what type of work he has seen, Years in ranks..etc. Furthermore my comments that this dope hfd326 was refering to was in reference to another post on this thread in regards to a similar but different subject matter altogether.

    FTM-PTB
    Last edited by FFFRED; 02-12-2007 at 12:18 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    Exactly!!!
    Exactly what?, are we in agrement?

    FTM-PTB

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    Default foolish and looking to up-grade?

    Quote Originally Posted by firehat87 View Post
    You guys have that right, but if you think NIOSH reports are bad you ought to try reading Texas State Fire Marshall's Office reports. Yikes!

    This is a very scary article and angers me a great deal. An added positive is tha it rails on Surpriseair pretty hard, and I truly hope no department is ever foolish enough to purchase their products again. Most intriguing was how an epidemioligist specializing in child labor was supervising a fire protection engineer who also happened to be a 20 yr veteran and a retired captain and that she had the gall to tell him he didn't understand what was relevant!
    The past few weeks have brought alot of info about scba's and pass devices in general,we currently have Survivair panther which the department purchased in 2001,and until we got this info on our packs and the problem with our pass devices we didn't realize how wide spread this is. We have had problems with water getting in our pass we thought it was just a bad battery.

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    One thing I've seen is that the PASS's sound can too easily be masked by a building's fire alarm system. Especially Wheelock MTs and *** (that is the model AS plural, not the slang term for your rear), which have a sound very similar to the alarm in the clip, without the lower pitched blast and the brief pause. Also many smoke detectors have a similar sound. And of course they could be masked by hoses, the fire itself, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED View Post
    Exactly what?, are we in agrement?

    FTM-PTB
    We would be in agreement that we both know who it is you would cooperate with.

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    Cool Which Models?

    Originally posted by stwfire44
    The past few weeks have brought alot of info about scba's and pass devices in general,we currently have Survivair panther which the department purchased in 2001,and until we got this info on our packs and the problem with our pass devices we didn't realize how wide spread this is. We have had problems with water getting in our pass we thought it was just a bad battery.
    Stwfire44,
    Have you been able to confirm that these are the PASS Devices for the Panthers? I talked to my Deputy Chief yesterday and we haven't been able to find out which models the bad PASS is used on. We also bought our BAs around the same time it seems your Department did.

    What Departments were contacted by Survivair regarding the bad PASS?
    "Be LOUD, Be PROUD..... It just might save your can someday when goin' through an intersection!!!!!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyboy View Post
    Stwfire44,
    Have you been able to confirm that these are the PASS Devices for the Panthers? I talked to my Deputy Chief yesterday and we haven't been able to find out which models the bad PASS is used on. We also bought our BAs around the same time it seems your Department did.

    What Departments were contacted by Survivair regarding the bad PASS?
    Mikeyboy,
    the model we have at stillwater fire is the survivair (panther ) all the mfg date on the compass pass is 2000 to 2001. It seem that if we allow our pass device dry out for couple days the pass devices start to work? Dallas fire has been using hair dryers to get the job done.

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    Default The Dope hfd326 replies

    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED View Post
    Here we go, my orginal response to this guy hfd326:


    How does your reply answer my question? I don't know where he worked(we know vaugely where he vollied), what companies he served in and for how many years in such ranks, how much work he saw...etc. furthermore how are promotions done in his dept? Are they civil service or are they based on patronage and azz-kissing as much of the US and vollies depts are handled?

    Once again for the slow guys, Because he brought it up, I would want to know Dept, companies and what type of work he has seen, Years in ranks..etc. Furthermore my comments that this dope hfd326 was refering to was in reference to another post on this thread in regards to a similar but different subject matter altogether.

    FTM-PTB



    Fred obviously you were too lazy to read the article linked to the original post or you would know the answer to your qusetions. Here is the link again: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16890732/ Page 2 talks about Schmidt and his qualifications. I also suggest reading the other links in the article too. If you need help comprehending the BIG words just let me know and I'll be glad to help.

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    Originally Posted by mikeyboy
    Stwfire44,
    Have you been able to confirm that these are the PASS Devices for the Panthers? I talked to my Deputy Chief yesterday and we haven't been able to find out which models the bad PASS is used on. We also bought our BAs around the same time it seems your Department did.

    What Departments were contacted by Survivair regarding the bad PASS?

    Mikeyboy,
    the model we have at stillwater fire is the survivair (panther ) all the mfg date on the compass pass is 2000 to 2001. It seem that if we allow our pass device dry out for couple days the pass devices start to work? Dallas fire has been using hair dryers to get the job done.

    The problems here in StLouis have been w/the PASS devices for the Survivair Panthers. This is what Rob and Derek were wearing and failed to function the night they were killed. I believe the whole point to all this was that Survivair didn't notify anyone because they didnt feel it was a safety issue.

    Thats why even though they settled out of court w/Rob's family, they admitted NO FAULT!

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    Quote Originally Posted by hfd326 View Post
    No FFFRED you called Schmidt a "volly chief" from "Upperstraw Bottom USA" and a "clown". You also strongly implied that he doesn't understand "operational procedures, and assigned duties, and responsibilities". As for NIOSH reports being usless after reading their handbook I can see why that would be true. Let alone how they actual seem to run investigations, which is even worse. I sounds like most of the dont have fire experience, and as I said earlier the investigators NEED fire fighting experience.

    FFRED is refering to the guy who signed the letter "Robert E. Koedam M.S." who states that he, himself, was a vollie chief.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    Tell us, Fred, just who WOULD you cooperate with? Obviously investigators from your FD and your union, but anyone else?
    I'm with FFRED on this because our Chiefs and Union officials all started in the same place, and have operational experiance and knowledge of our system.

    Its tough to find someone who can look at our procedures and truly undertand them without ever "being there" first.

    Noone is more critical on us...then us. Trust me, the jobs mentioned are STILL being critiqued and changes implimented.
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    Quote Originally Posted by VinnieB View Post
    I'm with FFRED on this because our Chiefs and Union officials all started in the same place, and have operational experiance and knowledge of our system.

    Its tough to find someone who can look at our procedures and truly undertand them without ever "being there" first.

    Noone is more critical on us...then us. Trust me, the jobs mentioned are STILL being critiqued and changes implimented.
    You realize,of course, that an agency who only allows internal investigation is equally able to cover up any indiscretions.

    If a major urban department like Baltimore can submit to a federal investigation, why couldn't FDNY?

    Wait. I know. It's DIFFERENT in NY.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hfd326 View Post
    Fred obviously you were too lazy to read the article linked to the original post or you would know the answer to your qusetions. Here is the link again: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16890732/ Page 2 talks about Schmidt and his qualifications. I also suggest reading the other links in the article too. If you need help comprehending the BIG words just let me know and I'll be glad to help.
    Obviously you were too lazy to read what I what post I was refering to when I first mentioned the volly chief thing. Pull your head out. How many times do I have to explain this to you before you will understand?

    FTM-PTB

    PS-Since you have been too slow to figure it out for yourself as of yet, my comments were in reference to post #26.
    Last edited by FFFRED; 02-14-2007 at 02:14 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    You realize,of course, that an agency who only allows internal investigation is equally able to cover up any indiscretions.

    If a major urban department like Baltimore can submit to a federal investigation, why couldn't FDNY?

    Wait. I know. It's DIFFERENT in NY.
    First I don't know, that is Baltimores decision. Do you realize it takes years and intense study and application for one to truly understand and comprehend how our procedures work?

    There are Procedures, AUCs, PAID's, training Bulletins...etc. More thorough than just about any other two fire departments you could pick combined. Much of it, is vetted and backed up with 1000s of fires or incidents to verify its purpose and safe implimentation on the fireground. One usaully doesn't get promoted until one has 7+ years on the job as a fireman. It takes litterally years of studing and usually an intense final 6 months were one has their heads burried in the books for Hours a day just to hope to score high enough to be promoted to the rank of Lieutennant. And some joe-blow from Anytown USA is going to walk in and in a few months offer a relevant and fact backed opinion about what happened and what should happen in the future regarding any particular fire or incident in this city? Anyone who thinks that is realisticly possible is only ignoring the facts.

    One only needs to look at the obvious oversights and gaffes made by those who investigated the Richie Sclafani fire to see the error in believing that these people could understand all the prerequisite procedural and practical applications on the fireground. It clearly isn't possible for these investigators to come to a relevant conclusion because they obviously didn't even account for our operational procedures and in lieu substitued their own subjective and obviously limited experience and beliefs on how we should fight a fire, apparently regardless of how dangerous or poorly concieved their ideas might be.

    Also I'm not sure, does Baltimore, have its own Safety Battalion and Division, with supporting resources. Do they have their own dedicated R & D staff? Do they have the staffing and resources to conduct a through investigation?

    Does some of what I say apply to Baltimore? Perhaps it does, but that is not for me to say. All I can say is that we make our decisions based on our sitaution and they make theirs based on their situation. They want some Federal quack second guessing them...that is their business.

    FTM-PTB
    Last edited by FFFRED; 02-14-2007 at 06:23 PM.

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    Before I coment further, I have not read the report you are referencing. Is it available online or do you have access to a copy? FF LODD investigation is a subject that I lecture on frequently and I would be interested in reading it.

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    ooops double post

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    Before I coment further, I have not read the report you are referencing. Is it available online or do you have access to a copy? FF LODD investigation is a subject that I lecture on frequently and I would be interested in reading it.
    NIOSH Richie Sclafani Report

    FTM-PTB

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    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED View Post
    I didn't realize it was a NIOSH Report. I could have found it myself. Thank you.

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