1. #1
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    30

    Default Emergency Generator for Station

    Our department is considering using the 2007 AFG to go after an emergency generator for our fire station. Has anyone been successful for this in the past?

    Any guesses what an "average" value for this would be. I would bet the folks at DHS do not have an average amount for a generator and installation.

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Forum Member
    Bones42's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Pt. Beach, NJ
    Posts
    10,703

    Default

    Our 2006 grant request was for generators for both of our stations. We got the 1199 link and 10 questions, so we are hoping that is all good signs.

    We put in for $42k for the generators.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  3. #3
    FH Mag/.com Contributor

    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Cypress, TX
    Posts
    7,288

    Default

    DHS wouldn't tell you what to ask for anyway, you'd have to figure out what size units you'd need and then price them from there. Their quick check on pricing is GSA, which obviously isn't accurate to the rest of the world, but nothing should be more than 50% higher than GSA in most cases.

    Lots of generators being funded each year, all different types of departments too. More than valid project considering the power outages that keep happening.

  4. #4
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    790

    Default

    We had the city electrician come and and figure what the maximum use would be and then added a little. Called the two local companies that handle building generators here which were Cat and Cummins and had them to give us bids. The only problem is that Cat is like a 36 week back order status on generators. I know several companies that have contracts with the local dealership to bring in the trailer generators if the companies loose power for over 8 hours. They seem to be pretty good to deal with.

  5. #5
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Shrewsbury, MO
    Posts
    20

    Default Emergency Generator for Station

    We installed a 150KW diesel powered generator w/300 gal. tank for our building in the 2005 grant year. It was @ $60,000, which included the generator, concrete pad, electrical rework and installation.

  6. #6
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    30

    Default What if we have an existing old one?

    BC79er:

    To complicate the question - We have an existing generator at the station that is 30 years old that this new one would be replacing. In general, would this reduce the competitiveness of the application?

    Thanks,
    Lee

  7. #7
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    381

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by famfox1800 View Post
    We installed a 150KW diesel powered generator w/300 gal. tank for our building in the 2005 grant year. It was @ $60,000, which included the generator, concrete pad, electrical rework and installation.

    I thought that "concrete pads" were a big no no as they changed the "foot print" of the building. I understand that you have to pay for the pad outside of the grant. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

  8. #8
    FH Mag/.com Contributor

    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Cypress, TX
    Posts
    7,288

    Default

    Correct, they won't pay for pads.

    brtengr, 30 years old is an oldy, and depending on what condition it's in and how well it's working versus what you need will help create your case. Of course having one means you're ahead of someone that has nothing, but still doesn't mean what you have meets your needs. If that's what you really need then fire away. Not applying for it guarantees it won't get replaced.

  9. #9
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Brunswick, MD
    Posts
    55

    Default Emergency Generator

    Not to cause trouble, but why not check out Goverment Surplus equipment and who may be available in your community to donate their time and or material.
    Our department got one for around $100.00 with the automatic transfer switch. Its a 250Kw unit. We then installed a pad, built a building to house it (both donated materials) purchased the items to cleanup and tuneup the unit. Had a local diesel machanic do the repairs / tuneup (labor donated). Purchased the electrical items needed to tie it into the building. (labor donated) Unit has been operating ever since. Have regular maintenance done yearly. Unit test runs every week picking up the building load. These units are made to run forever. Total cost for complete project was around $2500.00
    Just another idea.

  10. #10
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Rural Iowa
    Posts
    3,106

    Default

    Dittos on nc1130.

    The grants are 100% tax $ even though your end may only be 5%. So save the $ for others when you can.

    Our genset is DOD surplus. 200kw (110% load factor) Cummins diesel. 18hr on it when we recieved it. Very nice unit. DOD is replacing all of their diesel build before the mid 90s so there is a good supply of very heavy duty well maintained units. From 2kw to 1000kw.

  11. #11
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Shrewsbury, MO
    Posts
    20

    Default Emergency Generator for Station

    The "footprint" of the building was not affected with a pad for the generator. The "Footprint" concerns enlargingthe building such as adding a room or addition. The generator is located several feet from the structure and the only connection is the conduit containing the electric wires to the building. If it was inside the building, you wouldn't be able to hear yourself think because of the noise, and you still would have to provide exhaust for the fumes.

    Get real guys, the generator MUST have a base or it would vibrate across town! AFG didn't have any problem with our proposal and have closed out our grant. The diesel generator runs 1 hour/ week under load and is rated to support the entire building load.

    Our building qualified under the "Preservation of Historic Structures Act" also. We jumped through the hoops they wanted, sent them photos and information regarding the building, and they gave us their blessing. This generator's purpose is to allow us to function and protect our citizens. These people are reasonable! Don't make it more complicated than it needs to be!!!

  12. #12
    FH Mag/.com Contributor

    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Cypress, TX
    Posts
    7,288

    Default

    Get real guys, the generator MUST have a base or it would vibrate across town! AFG didn't have any problem with our proposal and have closed out our grant. The diesel generator runs 1 hour/ week under load and is rated to support the entire building load.
    No one is disagreeing with this, my dad spent 20 years putting in generators for AT&T. Some others on this forum have been turned down for the money to construct pads per Program Guidelines despite asking for them. I.E. "No grant funding can go toward site preparation to accommodate any training activity, facility, or prop." This is perceived that no money for generator pads by many a DHS rep. At the national rollout meeting I found out that two of the higher-ups in DHS couldn't agree on the answer to a question someone asked. So if you got it, great, but considering that a small concrete pad should costs less than $900 why take the chance that a reviewer might think your request excessive and give you a bad score for it?

    Probably less than $900, that's how much it cost me for 8.5 yards from a mix on site outfit for a patio I poured. Worth asking some local contractors for some at cost materials.

  13. #13
    Forum Member
    nmfire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Maryland (DC Suburb)
    Posts
    5,738

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BC79er View Post
    Of course having one means you're ahead of someone that has nothing...
    Heh, that kinda depends on how the old one was installed and if the person who did it knew what they were doing. I've seen some generator jobs that I could have done better at when I was 12 yrs old with radio shack voltmeter and some tape.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

  14. #14
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    790

    Default

    The old generators that we have came frm DOD, but the were manufactured in the 1960's. They still do OK, just have to manually start them and transfer the load.

  15. #15
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    381

    Default

    On the pad issue, I "just wanted to get real" and found this from last year. Happy reading
    http://forums.firehouse.com/showthre...+concrete+pads

  16. #16
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Rural Iowa
    Posts
    3,106

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Limeforever View Post
    The old generators that we have came frm DOD, but the were manufactured in the 1960's. They still do OK, just have to manually start them and transfer the load.

    Does the age matter? How many hours/is it reliable? Parts for most (other than the Onan diesel gensets) are generally available.

    You can add a transfer switch and auto start if it is actually needed (a manned station). And/or get a newer DOD genset.

  17. #17
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    465

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by famfox1800 View Post
    The "footprint" of the building was not affected with a pad for the generator. The "Footprint" concerns enlargingthe building such as adding a room or addition. The generator is located several feet from the structure and the only connection is the conduit containing the electric wires to the building. If it was inside the building, you wouldn't be able to hear yourself think because of the noise, and you still would have to provide exhaust for the fumes.

    Get real guys, the generator MUST have a base or it would vibrate across town! AFG didn't have any problem with our proposal and have closed out our grant. The diesel generator runs 1 hour/ week under load and is rated to support the entire building load.

    Our building qualified under the "Preservation of Historic Structures Act" also. We jumped through the hoops they wanted, sent them photos and information regarding the building, and they gave us their blessing. This generator's purpose is to allow us to function and protect our citizens. These people are reasonable! Don't make it more complicated than it needs to be!!!
    Be careful. They WILL NOT fund for the concrete pad. Already been there, done that. We were awarded for a generator 2 years ago and found out after we had hired somebody to do the concrete work that they wouldn't pay for it. It was for the reason stated, that it changed the footprint of the building.

    I argued up and down. Didn't matter, they did not and will not pay for it. Sad part is we could have done it ourselves and saved the money had we known it wasn't part of "installation".

    I hate to know how many innocent departments used funds to pay for concrete that could get nailed later at an audit. I suppose the worse they would do is make you pay back the $ for the concrete work. But that may be a problem for some departments.

  18. #18
    Banned

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    In my house
    Posts
    2,332

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nc1130 View Post
    Not to cause trouble, but why not check out Goverment Surplus equipment and who may be available in your community to donate their time and or material.
    Our department got one for around $100.00 with the automatic transfer switch. Its a 250Kw unit. We then installed a pad, built a building to house it (both donated materials) purchased the items to cleanup and tuneup the unit. Had a local diesel machanic do the repairs / tuneup (labor donated). Purchased the electrical items needed to tie it into the building. (labor donated) Unit has been operating ever since. Have regular maintenance done yearly. Unit test runs every week picking up the building load. These units are made to run forever. Total cost for complete project was around $2500.00
    Just another idea.
    We put a 60KW Onan with switch, runs on propane. Cost for the unit was 30,000, our cost $1,500. No labor on our part at all, totally installed and with a warranty.

  19. #19
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    790

    Default

    Good thing about having volunteers that all have a job outside the fire service. I worked construction and poured concrete, some of the others did and still do different jobs, we have an electrician, an HVAC guy. Suprising what you can do in house with the available talent.

    Neowia, Have hove you been able to locate the newer model gens? Everything that we look at still came from Korea or the Vietnam Era if you are lucky.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Emergency Lights for Vol FF/EMTs
    By fyrgeek in forum Volunteer Forum
    Replies: 347
    Last Post: 12-03-2014, 03:42 PM
  2. Help!
    By TED1435 in forum Emergency Vehicle Operations
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 05-16-2006, 01:28 AM
  3. 2004 report by IAFC report on the volunteer fire service
    By HeavyRescueTech in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-02-2004, 10:55 AM
  4. Replies: 5
    Last Post: 06-28-2003, 11:16 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register