Thread: Hhmmmmmm

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    Question Hhmmmmmm

    Police chase 'not worth the risk'
    Cops should pursue violent criminals only, police tactics expert says

    Rob Shaw, Times Colonist Published: Tuesday, February 06, 2007

    The Victoria Police Department faced blunt questions yesterday about how a high speed chase through a residential neighbourhood on the weekend ended with gunfire and a fatality.

    A U.S. expert in police tactics, who helped the RCMP develop its policy on police pursuits, said Victoria should follow the trend of other police departments and only chase criminals suspected of violent crimes.

    "About 35 to 40 per cent of chases result in a crash," said Geoffrey Alpert, a professor in the criminology and criminal justice department at the University of South Carolina, who has published studies on police pursuits.

    "Most progressive police chiefs have realized it's just not worth the risk of the public, and my family your family and their families, to go chase someone who is wanted for running a red light or stealing a car."

    Stealing is exactly what started a Victoria chase Saturday night. Police noticed a stolen 1991 white GMC Jimmy SUV near Topaz Avenue, west of Quadra Street. They watched 37-year-old John Seguin enter the vehicle and tried to block his escape with their cruisers. But he crashed through police, leading officers on a chase through nine city blocks at speeds exceeding 70 kilometres an hour.

    Seguin apparently swerved to try to hit three officers standing near their cars at a blockade at Hillside Avenue and Blackwood Street. The officers started shooting at the vehicle.

    Police said Seguin drove the SUV past the blockade, spun around, and sped back towards the officers who started firing again.

    Seguin was fatally hit and died later in hospital. It is the first time in the force's history that officers have shot and killed a person.

    The entire chase took fewer than two minutes. Typically, police in Victoria and other jurisdictions call off a chase at unsafe speeds or when it enters a neighbourhood where it could endanger the public. But this chase was too fast for that, said Victoria Police Chief Paul Battershill.

    "When a chase starts, there has to be an analysis made of what's taking place," he said yesterday. "But that generally takes a minute or two to do and this was over in 90 seconds."

    That should have been enough time, Alpert said, adding that perhaps the outcome will spur Victoria to set a more restrictive policy on pursuits.

    "It may well bring your chief to his right mind to avoid these things later on," Alpert said. "The problem is, you can't predict what the guy fleeing is going to do. If he's going to escape, at what cost? Why would you chase him into a residential neighbourhood?"

    Three officers fired approximately 12 shots from their service pistols to kill Seguin. Some of the bullets hit his vehicle. But they also struck a bus shelter, a parked car, and a moving car..

    Battershill said it is a balanced decision to fire weapons.

    "It's arguable that vehicle hurtling down Hillside Avenue would pose an even greater risk to the public," he said. "You have to balance that out. Had he continued he could have very likely run down members of the public or killed someone in a fatal crash."

    An independent investigation of the shooting will be led by Supt. Brad Parker of the Delta police.

    Times Colonist (Victoria) 2007
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    I think maybe they need an RPG but then again if they can't shoot any better than they did they would probably have missed with the RPG.

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    So the chase started off as a stolen vehicle call. The minute that perp ran through the baracade it became assault with a deadly weapon on a LEO; which there should be no question of wether a chase should ensue or not. Is it really safer for the public to let a perp go just because they run and there MIGHT be an accident as opposed to letting a known perp go who MIGHT commit further and more serious crimes?

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    PK, I agree with you 100% about the sit going from just a stolen car routine to assault with a deadly weapon (vehicle). What sort of made me smile was that "speeds reached approximately 70kph...." or translated for those who don't use metric: roughly 40 MPH. Yep, thats a real high speed chase there.

    However, the area for which the event was reported is a bit of a run down area - lots of low income housing and such. It is also located near one of the main traffic arteries for the city too - which means lots of traffic. I read through some of the other reports on this story, and apprarently events took place around 8pm. No longer the "rush-(half)hour" traffic but busy enough in that area in any case.

    Also, on a geographics note, the RCMP head office for the Victoria region is just around the corner on Blanshard St (the main artery I was referring to), and City of Victoria police HQ is just a few blocks up as well.
    If you don't do it RIGHT today, when will you have time to do it over? (Hall of Fame basketball player/coach John Wooden)

    "I may be slow, but my work is poor." Chief Dave Balding, MVFD

    "Its not Rocket Science. Just use a LITTLE imagination." (Me)

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    According to local news reports yesterday, at no time was this ever considered a high speed chase.

    I was going to post last night. Decided just to go to bed instead LOL.

    He was also VERY well known to police.

    Here's another version:


    Victoria police shoot and kill suspect in stolen SUV
    05/02/2007 6:34:56 PM
    Printer-friendly page

    Three Victoria police officers shot and killed a suspect in a stolen SUV following a chase through a residential neighbourhood of the capital on Saturday night.

    CBC News

    Police said the chase began just before 8 p.m. Saturday, after two officers saw a man get into a stolen SUV.

    Two police cars had attempted to block the suspect from leaving in the stolen vehicle, but the driver rammed them and drove away.

    Three other officers used their cars to block a side road, but the suspect drove onto the boulevard, heading toward the officers who were standing on the sidewalk.

    One officer dove out of the way, as the other three fired shots at the vehicle. The stolen SUV then turned around and headed back toward the officers, who all fired again, said a police spokesman.

    "It appears on a preliminary basis, the officers fired their weapons to protect themselves in what was obviously an exceedingly dangerous situation, both for themselves and for the public," said Insp. Clark Russell.

    The officers fired a total of 12 shots. The SUV driver was hit twice. He died two hours later in hospital. No one else was injured.

    One stray bullet hit a bus shelter, shattering the glass. Another lodged in a passing car.

    Police said the dead man, John Seguin, 37, had a long criminal record. The names of the three officers, who have been placed on paid administrative leave, are being withheld.

    An investigation is underway, but it will likely be months before it's completed, said Russell.

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    ROFLOL Ok thats some stuff, is there such thing as a slow speed chase? Sounds like something you would see on Reno 911.

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    This was part of the original story:

    Officers who pulled trigger are 'quite shaken'

    Rob Shaw, Times Colonist Published: Tuesday, February 06, 2007

    The three officers involved in the first fatal shooting in Victoria police history are experienced members of the force.

    Yesterday, the department identified them as: Sgt. John Ayers, Sgt. Mike Johnston and Const. Cliff Watson.

    Ayers has 20 years of police service and is a well-known officer who has served in the major crime unit as a detective and on the youth outreach team, which dealt with prostitution and child exploitation.

    Johnston and Watson are both members of the Greater Victoria Emergency Response Team, a specially trained, heavily armed tactical unit -- similar to a SWAT unit in the U.S. Johnston has served 11 years with Victoria police and Watson has served six years.

    Victoria Police Chief Paul Battershill, who had spoken with the officers, said yesterday that the men are "quite shaken" by the shooting. "I guess it is a sobering experience of the dangers of the job, and how quickly things can happen. That's certainly hit home. And also, every officer doesn't want to use lethal force. When you have to actually use it, it's a horrifying experience."

    The officers had not been interviewed by investigators as of yesterday, said police union vice-president Bill Trudeau. "It's a stress-filled situation for the cops involved," said Trudeau. "It's a split-second decision but you are second-guessed for years."

    The three officers have been debriefed by the department's critical incidents stress team and provided counselling, said Trudeau. All three were put on administrative leave after turning in their firearms, removing their uniforms for evidence and having their hands swabbed for gunfire residue.

    "No cop wants to be involved in a shooting," said Trudeau. "The vast majority of cops can go their entire career and not fire a shot other than at a range."

    rfshaw@tc.canwest.com

    Times Colonist (Victoria) 2007
    If you don't do it RIGHT today, when will you have time to do it over? (Hall of Fame basketball player/coach John Wooden)

    "I may be slow, but my work is poor." Chief Dave Balding, MVFD

    "Its not Rocket Science. Just use a LITTLE imagination." (Me)

    Get it up. Get it on. Get it done!

    impossible solved cotidie. miracles postulo viginti - quattuor hora animadverto

    IACOJ member: Cheers, Play safe y'all.

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