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    Wow This is going to get interesting. Messy though.

    *shaking my head in disbelief at what I've just read*
    September 11th - Never Forget

    I respect firefighters and emergency workers worldwide. Thank you for what you do.

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    Sounds like someone didn't go along with the "good ole boys club" and got voted off the island.
    Jason Knecht
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    Altoona Fire Dept.
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    Thumbs down

    In North Carolina, there are rules that must be followed in order to burn acquired structures. The rules were not followed. This department deserves to be fined and these two firefighters deserve their jobs.

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    Perhaps a reputable department will be interested in hiring them.

    I sure wouldn't want to go back if I were in their shoes.
    September 11th - Never Forget

    I respect firefighters and emergency workers worldwide. Thank you for what you do.

    Sheri
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    ďI knew that you have to have certain permits to do a burn and I voiced my opinion about it. I said, ĎThis is illegal and Iím not taking part of this activity because itís illegal.í When we went to the house, I would not get off the engine. I refused to take part.Ē

    I was warned before I filled out my application about that place and I donít pass judgment, but I should have. Thereís a whole bunch of stuff that we should have been doing that we donít, like training.Ē

    Bellissimo said he tried to get a few hours off a week to get his Emergency Medical Technician certification through Wake Technical College, but was told it was too much time away from the job.

    ďI asked about training. I said letís train and I did not get the training I wanted,Ē said Bellissimo.

    ďI was out driving Billy Myrickís dump truck and track loader to do the landscaping. If we would have had a structure fire or anything of that nature, I would have been out driving back and forth. While I was on duty, I should have been at the station.Ē Bellissimo said he canít afford an attorney and canít find one to take the case pro bono.

    This guy sounds like a dream candidate. Constant complaints from day one. Crying about working around the station. Brand new hire and he's asking for time off. Complaining about the training. It sounds like ratting out everyone at the station was just the last straw. Honestly, deep down, would you want to work day in and day out with this crybaby rat? It's only a matter of time before this bedwetting cheese eater gets you in trouble. JMHO.
    I am a complacent liability to the fire service

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    Chicago, I absolutely agree with you. This guy has some pair of balls on him with 6 months on the job. Imagine how he would be with more time on the job?. At least the other guy kept his mouth shut. Were they still on probation? They wouldn't train him? WTF, He had the perfect opportunity for some great live fire training, and let his crew go without him while he stayed in the rig moaning like a sissy crybaby about permits. Let the bosses worry about permits, and fines. He obviously was never schooled by anyone on how to fit in. What is the common piece of advice given to every probie that asks how or what to do on the job while a newbie? KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT! He obviously did not fit in, and where I"m from, during probation, they can s##t can you for any reason, even without cause. Especially if you are a loudmouth, crybaby, rat that doesn't fit in.

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    This shouldn't be about whether this guy whined alot or made alot of stupid complaints, because in this instance he was filing a legitimate complaint. The burn was illegal and the official dispatch term for a fire of that type in Wake county is "illegal burn."

    Even as a probie, the department can not fire someone for "any" reason, and in many government jobs one can not be let go for being a "whistle blower."

    There's a fine line between being a snitch and a conscientious citizen.

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    gonna have to side with ChicagoFF on this one. We really havent heard anything from the other side just yet also. I do see where he is coming from on the training end of it, but apparently they did SOME training, i.e. the live burn. I guess on my department, I dont worry about weather or not we were approved to do the training. Rather I assume its not my job to worry about that.

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    This will get ugly. I kind of see both sides of the story. Yes he's a probie, and he wouldn't be the one getting in trouble if the dept did get caught doing this. As stated earlier the chief and officers, would be the one responsible. If I was him I'd jumped on the chance for the training.

    The other side of the story where I'm from we have to have the structures tested and fill out a bunch of paperwork with the EPA, to be able to burn a structure for training. We use to just burn them and life goes on but that was then and this is now. Our area has a few firefighters that have a hard on for some depts and will turn them in to the EPA. It's like wtf?? Alot of people complain about not getting good training, and depts go out and do training in a house then the next thing you know the EPA is up your ***. So we play it safe and do the tests and the EPA is'nt to bad to deal with though. These days the EPA will give an automatic fine starting at I think $8000.00 and go up so it's not worth taking the risk and putting your dept in a bad spot especially when you have yahoooo's waiting any chance to stab you in the back. So DTA (don't trust anybody)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dickey View Post
    Sounds like someone didn't go along with the "good ole boys club" and got voted off the island.
    Ohh how true this probably is.
    Just know, I chose my own fate. I drove by the fork in the road and went straight.

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    Not that I totally disagree with ChicagoFF, but what's to say this guy didn't want a better department and did what he could and voiced his opinion about what would make it a better department. Complaining about lack of training while the firefighters are stuck doing landscaping is not out of line in my book. Depending on the structure of this combo dept., he may have been considered a supervisor or leader within the department. Nothing wrong at all for trying to make improvements.

    I don't disagree with his actions in regards to the illegal burn, either. He protested and refused to participate in an illegal action. Had this been a union local as opposed to a single firefighter, I think several here would be up in arms, as unions protest illegal and inappropriate actions by governments and FD admins all the time. I'd venture to say any number of locals would have a fit about guys being pulled from the station and/or job to do landscaping.
    Last edited by Catch22; 02-07-2007 at 09:07 PM. Reason: typo noticed

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    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post
    Not that I totally disagree with ChicagoFF, but what's to say this guy didn't want a better department and did what he could and voiced his opinion about what would make it a better department. Complaining about lack of training while the firefighters are stuck doing landscaping is now out of line in my book. Depending on the structure of this combo dept., he may have been considered a supervisor or leader within the department. Nothing wrong at all for trying to make improvements.

    I don't disagree with his actions in regards to the illegal burn, either. He protested and refused to participate in an illegal action. Had this been a union local as opposed to a single firefighter, I think several here would be up in arms, as unions protest illegal and inappropriate actions by governments and FD admins all the time. I'd venture to say any number of locals would have a fit about guys being pulled from the station and/or job to do landscaping.
    Also, for everyone's general information, Wake County and its surrounding neighbors are EXPLODING with upper scale housing subdivisions. Many firefighters who volunteer or otherwise work part time usually have their hand in these devolopments at one phase or another. Around here it is not uncommon for a guy to start his own business on the side and make a killing rather than just getting by. (I recall Wake Forest's Fire Cheif and the controversy surrounding him being paid and running a construction business on his days off; which eventually led to him stepping down.) Many guys in turn invest in these subdivisons. It is entirely possible that someone in the department had some controlling interest in this devolopment and this firefighter's "hauling dirt" was an extension of the "good ol boy system".
    Last edited by KEEPBACK200FEET; 02-07-2007 at 02:03 PM.
    Just know, I chose my own fate. I drove by the fork in the road and went straight.

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    By the way KEEPBACK200FEET, you're so dramatic!

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    I am going to have to disagree with those calling him a whiner and a complainer and the most despicable a crybaby rat.

    To me it is really crystal clear. This an example of a firefighter simply not wanting to be involved in what he knew was an illegal action by the fire department. The fact that the administration knew it was illegal activity and even after being informed by a firefighter that it was illegal they chose to proceed anyways speaks volumes to me about this fire department.

    Is he a whiner or a complainer? How do we know that? Because of your perception from a few lines in a newspaper story? Is asking for training whining? Is saying no to illegal activites complaining or does it make you a crybaby rat? Hmmmm, I guess people's standards are different.

    For those that said he missed some great training by not participating...how much great training is there in burning a house that is mostly burned down already? Honestly this looks like to me a good old boy helping his boss by burning more of the structure down so there would be less to haul away.

    I guess this is one of those cases again where because this is not a major metro FD the forum is allowed to pile on these guys. Once again the hypocrisy of "Wait until the whole story comes out" is selectively applied and because some disagree with what they did they choose to make unbelievably disparaging comments about them. What is appalling to me is that some of you would crucicfy these guys for not wanting to particiapte in an illegal training activity. I would think the city, if not the admin of the FD, would applaud their convictions and not fire them over this.

    FyredUp

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    There is more going on here then many know about. The story goes deeper than just those two articles. To name a few: The incident in question was done through some "closed door,good ole' boy" sessions and it was decided that the owner wanted the remaining part of the house gone, so this FD goes out at about 2300 hrs, with GASOLINE to finish burning a house with ASBESTOS in it. This guy stood up for what he believed to be the right thing. What if someone had gotten hurt or worse yet even killed due to this crap? The comments about the landscaping issue, they were doing work for the president's PRIVATE company while ON DUTY. How is that bitching about "his job". The statements about training and "complaining" while on probation, I see where your trying to go with that, but the fact that he was out moving dirt for the president's private company while on duty for the fire dept, just doesn't hold water for that arguement.

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    I agree 100% with FyredUp.

    Don't shoot a guy down for wanting to become a better firefighter and not participate in illegal activities.

    I almost feel stupid trying to defend this guy, because I don't understand how anyone could not be on his side...
    Get busy livin, or get busy dyin. - Shawshank Redemption
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post
    Not that I totally disagree with ChicagoFF, but what's to say this guy didn't want a better department and did what he could and voiced his opinion about what would make it a better department. Complaining about lack of training while the firefighters are stuck doing landscaping is now out of line in my book. Depending on the structure of this combo dept., he may have been considered a supervisor or leader within the department. Nothing wrong at all for trying to make improvements.

    I don't disagree with his actions in regards to the illegal burn, either. He protested and refused to participate in an illegal action. Had this been a union local as opposed to a single firefighter, I think several here would be up in arms, as unions protest illegal and inappropriate actions by governments and FD admins all the time. I'd venture to say any number of locals would have a fit about guys being pulled from the station and/or job to do landscaping.

    The way I see it... landscaping isn't in my job description.

    To Chicago FF.. if you were pulled off a rig to go get some "good soil" from the Commish's house, would you not file a grievenace faster than Da Bears QB fumbling the football?
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    The way I see it... landscaping isn't in my job description.

    To Chicago FF.. if you were pulled off a rig to go get some "good soil" from the Commish's house, would you not file a grievenace faster than Da Bears QB fumbling the football?
    Had to go there didn't you gonzo

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    ****These comments are mine and mine alone and in no way represent any department I am associated with****

    I know both FF's that got canned, they for the most part are stand up guys. The department in question, more so their leadership is shady has hell. They don't do any training there, and I mean any, this is to include preplans. This is not the first and won't be the last time that houses have mysteriously burnt up in their district.

    Jason asked questions after he saw what the paid guys at his combo department where he vols at were doing, ie the training during the day, preplans, hydrant maintenence, and wanted to know why they didn't do that type of stuff at Eastern Wake. I can see how ChicagoFF might see Jason as a rat, or cry baby, but he isn't that way. What that story doesn't tell is how he was made to take off his uniform in the wash bay at 1130pm and go to the house. Jason didn't rat anyone out, he did say that he didn't want any part of the burning. Allen (who was the other FF fired) was the one that called the fire marshal's office. He did so anyomimously (sp?) and was found out when the Chief pulled the 911 phone tapes and recognized his voice.

    One other small detail is that word coming out of the department is that the board president asked the chief for this to be done, not the other way around. You know something fishy is up when a fire truck pulls up to a burnt vacant house, turns off the fire truck and its lights, and precedes to light the house on fire.


    ****These comments are mine and mine alone and in no way represent any department that I may be associated with****

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    If they didn't pull the permits, you've got to wonder how much else they did for planning. Certainly it wasn't for training if the description of the house having been previously damaged was true.

    BTW...there was another link on those pages...

    East Wake FD's station sits TWO BLOCKS away from another station. Sounds like a neighboring city incorporated right around it and they respond through the incorporated areas to reach the unincorporated district.

    In a word, FUBAR every way you look at it.

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    ****These comments are mine and mine alone and in no way represent any department I am associated with****

    Quote Originally Posted by Dalmatian190 View Post

    East Wake FD's station sits TWO BLOCKS away from another station. Sounds like a neighboring city incorporated right around it and they respond through the incorporated areas to reach the unincorporated district.

    In a word, FUBAR every way you look at it.
    This would be true. A couple of years ago the town of Knightdale decided to form their own department and not contract with Eastern Wake any longer. This left an Eastern Wake fire station inside of town limits and one outside. Now if Eastern Wake gets a fire and needs mutuial aid, they will call for another department to respond from somewhere around 5-10 miles away instead of the town department which might be 2 miles or less away due to the fact that the admin has hurt feelings and doesn't want any part of the town any longer.


    ****These comments are mine and mine alone and in no way represent any department I am associated with****

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    Quote Originally Posted by GFDLT1 View Post
    ****These comments are mine and mine alone and in no way represent any department I am associated with****

    I know both FF's that got canned, they for the most part are stand up guys. The department in question, more so their leadership is shady has hell. They don't do any training there, and I mean any, this is to include preplans. This is not the first and won't be the last time that houses have mysteriously burnt up in their district.

    Jason asked questions after he saw what the paid guys at his combo department where he vols at were doing, ie the training during the day, preplans, hydrant maintenence, and wanted to know why they didn't do that type of stuff at Eastern Wake. I can see how ChicagoFF might see Jason as a rat, or cry baby, but he isn't that way. What that story doesn't tell is how he was made to take off his uniform in the wash bay at 1130pm and go to the house. Jason didn't rat anyone out, he did say that he didn't want any part of the burning. Allen (who was the other FF fired) was the one that called the fire marshal's office. He did so anyomimously (sp?) and was found out when the Chief pulled the 911 phone tapes and recognized his voice.

    One other small detail is that word coming out of the department is that the board president asked the chief for this to be done, not the other way around. You know something fishy is up when a fire truck pulls up to a burnt vacant house, turns off the fire truck and its lights, and precedes to light the house on fire.


    ****These comments are mine and mine alone and in no way represent any department that I may be associated with****
    I'll have to take your word for it then, but this comment still sticks out

    I was warned before I filled out my application about that place and I donít pass judgment, but I should have. Thereís a whole bunch of stuff that we should have been doing that we donít, like training.
    It sounds like he knew what he was getting into. But if you say he's not a crybaby, then ok. There is still the major problem (in my eyes) of the rat out. Not too many things justify that move in my book. We'll see
    I am a complacent liability to the fire service

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    I dont think these guys are "Rats". They were not ratting out fellow firemen. they were reporting a screwed up situation regarding their management. I will take the firemens side over managements until proven otherwise.
    IAFF-IACOJ PROUD

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    Quote Originally Posted by MIKEYLIKESIT View Post
    I dont think these guys are "Rats". They were not ratting out fellow firemen. they were reporting a screwed up situation regarding their management. I will take the firemens side over managements until proven otherwise.
    This guy was a candidate and in six months he managed to join a department he knew didn't train much, complain that they didn't do the training he wanted, somehow get involved in ratting out his department (which we all know hurts everyone - not just management) and tops it all off by blabing to the press. Not a real good start in my mind. Imagine this guy as a candidate on your outfit Mikey - I'm sure it would go smooth....
    I am a complacent liability to the fire service

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    The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. Candidates should keep their yaps shut. The leaders of the department seem like ****** bags.
    IAFF-IACOJ PROUD

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