Same here. In fact, I don't think I've ever put up a 24 with another person.Quote:
Originally Posted by SPFDRum
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Same here. In fact, I don't think I've ever put up a 24 with another person.Quote:
Originally Posted by SPFDRum
I'm suprised by how many think raising and extending a 24' ladder is dangerous with one person. This should be practiced and mastered by all.
Remember you won't always be able to put the ladder against the building and extend the fly. For example if you have to reach an overhanging balcony or the eaves of the roof come out too far.
Everyone should be comftorable with this basic FF skill.
I perform my ladder extensions EXACTLY like NonSurfinCAFF but I am also from CA so it's almost universal.
It was a basic skill in my academy. It still is today.
This is not a correct statement. The leg that foots the ladder should be the one opposite the direction that the pulley is pulling the halyard. For example, all of our ladders pulleys are locked so the halyard pulls to the right side, with that we have to foot the ladder with our left leg, that keeps the left foot of the ladder from coming off the ground because you're pulling to the right side because of the pulley. I have a hard time teaching newbies that until the foot comes off the ground on them and the ladder turns on them.Quote:
Originally Posted by SFDE37
Our department also make it a standard for a one person 24' ladder raise. Granted if possible on the fireground I prefer to use two people to try and prevent any injuries. When working with someone else raising it we determine while we're walking to our location if we'll raise it flat or on the beam. When raising it by ourselves we try and spot it where it'll be needed for the correct placement and climbing angle prior to raising it. We never raise it using a building or other object.
To graduate (in Florida) the recruit MUST me proficient in rasing the 24 ft ground ladder solo, WITHOUT touching the building AT ALL.
Dont argue with me, I had to do it;)
That's right BLSboy.
In the FFII practicals in the Great State of Florida, one must be able to safely and effectively raise a 24' extension ladder by yourself.
Sounds very similar to what's done in Florida. There are some things that are different though. It's an extremely methodical evolution that must be completed almost flawlessly in 2.5 minutes if I remember correctly. There are a few things that will make you fail very quickly like not checking for overhead obstructions before raising, losing control of the ladder, or not keeping contact with it at all times. This must be done after your airpack evolution and hose drag to make sure you are nice and tired.Quote:
1) Carry the ladder, fly section against the body, to the building.
2) Stop 6" from the building, place the ladder flat on the ground.
3) Go to the tip, place hand on rung, push the ladder into the building, lift and walk the ladder vertical with fly section against the building.
4) Bring the butt out 6" from the building.
5) Bring the tip away from the building and balance the beam against your leg and thigh (prevents the fly section from hanging up on building materials).
6) Raise the fly to the desired height (at any time a safety issue arises the recruit can push the ladder back into the building).
7) Push tip into building and rotate the ladder into position.
8) Pull the butt out to the desired climbing angle.
2.5 min, automatic failures are, (from what I can remember)
Over the time
Loss of control of the ladder
Not Keeping 3 points of contact with the ladder at all times (1 warning)
Not checking for obstructions (overhead and ground)
And this is after putting on your airpack in a certain amount of time ( a REAL piece of cake), and the Minuteman load drill (a real BIG piece of cake)
We had to shout out the commands out loud, so our evaluator could hear them....standing 50 feet away after he removed his hearing aid!
Its no joke to become a career FF in Fla!
Ill see if I can find the directions for this evolution.
I know I had them on my desktop on Fla, but Im on a laptop in Jersey, so the do me no good there!
2.5 min, automatic failures are, (from what I can remember)
Over the time
Loss of control of the ladder
Not Keeping 3 points of contact with the ladder at all times (1 warning)
Not checking for obstructions (overhead and ground)
And less then a 70% scoring on it for minor infractions (knot wrong, not raised 9 rungs, not shouting out commands loud enough, etc)
And this is after putting on your airpack in a certain amount of time ( a REAL piece of cake), and the Minuteman load drill (a real BIG piece of cake)
We had to shout out the commands out loud, so our evaluator could hear them....standing 50 feet away after he removed his hearing aid!
Its no joke to become a career FF in Fla!
Ill see if I can find the directions for this evolution.
I know I had them on my desktop on Fla, but Im on a laptop in Jersey, so the do me no good there!
Thanks for all the responses and help. Great info.
As far as FL is concerned, but I think you can use the bldg to raise the ladder upright, then have to move it away from the bldg for the extension raise portion. Yes or no??
you can use the building to RAISE the ladder itself, NOT the fly section, eg; place ladder down, check for overhead obstacles, butt ladder on building, raise to 90 degrees, then pull away from building, before extending it
24' extension ladder raise is taught as a single person evolution here in Portland. All the recruits must meet a time standard. SCBA, hydrant-single and double header, 24' ext. ladder are all basic personal skills at the beginning of your academy. All members perform these personal skills for time at company evaluations.
All of our folks are also required to raise the 24 footer by themselves, without footing against the building. Seems to be a mostly west coast thing from the comments I'm seeing above. The key is getting the butt firmly tucked into the arch of your foot and the knee of the same leg on the rail of the ladder. Keep your weight low. Push the ladder away from you maybe five degrees with your knee to counter the back force of your pull on the halyard. Note that the fly will be towards the building and counter to IFSTA specs. Some raise the ladder and flip it to be "more correct".Quote:
Originally Posted by NonSurfinCaFF
EngineCo16- I'm curious as to why you think Seattle's method is incorrect? Could you please direct me to the page in SFD's basic skills manual that you are referencing.
Hey man if you haven't found the correct info on this yet I suggest you listen. If you are trying to get certification in FL it is very inportant that you know all about "The Big 3". This includes donning your SCBA and checking it out, doing the minute man load deploy and the one man 24' extension ladder carry and raise. These are the biggest parts of the test and this is where you will fail if you don't know what you are doing. I suggest that you get with an instructor from one of the many fire academies in the state and get all of the steps before you even start to practice.
The one man ladder raise is very detailed. You must call out all commands as you do them. You must raise the ladder a certain way and you must raise it alone without touching the building as you extend the fly. There are certain things allowed and certain auto fails. So far none of the posts on here have told you the correct "State Way" to do it. I won't try because I can't remember it step by step.
Good luck buddy, it's not that hard if you know what you are doing.
According to their profile, the original poster is in Nevada, I doubt they are that concerned with doing it the Florida way. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by RidinBackwards
Lets see if I can remember it....
me....SIR, THIS RECRUIT REQUESTS PERMISSION TO CHECK OVER MY LADDER, SIR!?
State dude...Permission granted
(this is where you try to catch your breath after the minuteman)
SIR, THIS RECRUIT IS NOW READY TO BEGIN!
Test starts when you first touch the equiptment
PREPARING TO BEAM LADDER, BEAMING LADDER
PREPARING TO CARRY LADDER, CARRYING LADDER
NO GROUND OBSTRUCTIONS, NO OVERHEAD OBSTRUCTIONS, LADDER COMING
LADDER LEFT, LADDER COMING
LADDER RIGHT, LADDER COMING
NO GROUND OBSTRUCTIONS, NO OVERHEAD OBSTRUCTIONS, LADDER COMING
PREPARING TO STOP, STOPPING
PREPARING TO LOWER LADDER, LOWERING LADDER
PREPARING TO BED LADDER, BEDDING LADDER
PREPARING TO RAISE LADDER, RAISING LADDER
now you raise, and extend ladder, set to proper climbing angle, tie your clove hitch, stand behind ladder as to butt ladder and state
SIR, LADDER AT PROPER CLIMBING ANGLE, HALYARD SECURED, BUTTED, AND READY TO CLIMB!
Do NOT let go until the to safetys have taken the ladder from you
Any of my Fla Brothers care to make any changes?:cool:
Excuse me nonsurfin, this post must have thrown me off as to where he was testing.Quote:
Originally Posted by jl
Here in Alaska I had to be able to perform this skill to get hired. Throwing a 24ft ext ladder is a basic FF1 skill. You should not however bring it down by yourself. If the fire is over you got lots of help. We do it just like the guy from Canada does it. It is IFSTA aproved! Not hard to learn unless your weak!
"Wires, Obstructions, Other Firefighters!"
In Montgomery Co. (MD), similar deal, throwing a 24 or 28 (I don't remember) by yourself and a 35 with others, in the academy (same FF training for career and volunteers, except vollies don't get yelled at quite as much as the recruits).
We also had to do the 45' (can't remember its name either) with the "tormentor poles", but that was a six-person evolution. I've only met one or two FFs who ever recall using the heavy sumb**ch for real.