Single person extension ladder raise??

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Originally Posted by FyredUp

I'm not quite sure why you reposted this, But if it is response to my post...I simply stated a scenario where the "Butt the ladder against the building" idea simply won't work and what the alternative is. Now if you have a way of laying the roughly 14 feet of a 24 foot ladder across a 4 to 10 foot wide alley to butt it against the building please do share it.

FyredUp

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That is strange. I only posted it once.....

The Bright House dude are up on the pole, so I think I can safely place the blame on their shoulders. :cool: :p

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Originally Posted by Squad1LT

Well first of all "approved" by who? Just because something isn't in an IFSTA manual doesn't mean it is a valid tactic. Alot of methods I have learned were not "approved".

I have only done single raises butted up against a house or building, but if I had to do it by myself I would try to extend the ladder while it was laying on the ground then raise it up. Never done it, maybe I will try it tommorrow at work. Inside though, its friggin freezing right now.

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I'll bet OSHA would have a field day at your department.

OSHA bases its safety mandates on NFPA codes and standards. Why do we have standards for safety on the fireground? So more of us get to go home and enjoy our lives once the fire's over. It doesn't make any difference to your widow how short-staffed your department was when you did something stupid in an effort to overcome that manpower shortage. Our number one priority on the fireground is personal safety, period. Sure, you can raise an extension ladder by yourself. But is it worth it?

You would be surprised by what you CAN do and things you WILL do when faced in the matter of life and death. This would include "non-approved" ladder raises.

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Originally Posted by mcaldwell

We don't teach that, nor have I seen it in any training material I have.

We teach to heel the ladder into the building and walk it up, or use the side beam raise (with two men).

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DITTO here too. In fact that is how my class and I will be tested this next weekend as part of our FFI Skills tests. Just run the foot of the ladder into the edge of the building, fly side in. Run up the fly to the height you need, flip the ladder over to the "climbing side", tie it off, set the climbing angle and VOILA done. :D Should be done in 3 minutes from time of stepping off the rig, till time of completion.

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Originally Posted by FireEMSgrrl

Sure, you can raise an extension ladder by yourself. But is it worth it?

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Why don't we poll the 8 people hanging out the windows at midnight when your 3 man ladder company arrives and help is still 10 minutes out.....

I am all for doing things safe and by the book, but it is nice to have an ace in your pocket for when "desperate times call for desperate measures"

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Originally Posted by MG3610

http://youtube.com/watch?v=PQE7OKKPT...e=user&search=

Here's a Video

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In the video it appears that the halyard was tied around both rungs. (bed and fly) Is this common practice?

Another way to raise an extension ladder with one person, without butting the ladder against the building:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=wuYPfW1QVps

And if you're interested, the 2 person 35 ft. evolution (again, without the ladder butting against the building):

http://youtube.com/watch?v=7u0b-6JrA...elated&search=

This agency raises ladders with the fly section facing the building (the manufacturer has no problem with this). It would be fairly easy to roll the ladder once it is up if you want the fly section out.

Just another way of skinning a cat.

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Originally Posted by FireEMSgrrl

I'll bet OSHA would have a field day at your department.

OSHA bases its safety mandates on NFPA codes and standards.

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Please note, however, that NFPA doesn't recommend any particular method of raising ladders.

In fact, NFPA rarely specifies how individual tactical evolutions should be performed; it essentially only requires that they be performed in a safe manner.

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Originally Posted by FireEMSgrrl

I'll bet OSHA would have a field day at your department.

OSHA bases its safety mandates on NFPA codes and standards. Why do we have standards for safety on the fireground? So more of us get to go home and enjoy our lives once the fire's over. It doesn't make any difference to your widow how short-staffed your department was when you did something stupid in an effort to overcome that manpower shortage. Our number one priority on the fireground is personal safety, period. Sure, you can raise an extension ladder by yourself. But is it worth it?

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OSHA SMOOSHA...

Damn right its worth it. When you have people trapped and not enough FF's to "textbook" style your firefighting operations. When you are understaffed and you have to take action. When another FF pops out a window looking for a rescue ladder because they are trapped and your crew is doing something else.....should I go on?

The mother or father whos kids died becase you only did things the textbook way has a case too, right?

FYI, the single FF extension ladder raise is in many books and taught at many academies. There are a few unique twists to it that are awesome tools to know if a situation warrants the action.

You can't be in this business if you refuse to acknowledge there will be times we HAVE to "violate" safety "rules" to accomplish goals in extreme and trying circumstances.

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Originally Posted by FireEMSgrrl

It doesn't make any difference to your widow how short-staffed your department was when you did something stupid in an effort to overcome that manpower shortage. Our number one priority on the fireground is personal safety, period. Sure, you can raise an extension ladder by yourself. But is it worth it?

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Have you actually ever been on a fireground?

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Originally Posted by FireEMSgrrl

I'll bet OSHA would have a field day at your department.

OSHA bases its safety mandates on NFPA codes and standards. Why do we have standards for safety on the fireground? So more of us get to go home and enjoy our lives once the fire's over. It doesn't make any difference to your widow how short-staffed your department was when you did something stupid in an effort to overcome that manpower shortage. Our number one priority on the fireground is personal safety, period. Sure, you can raise an extension ladder by yourself. But is it worth it?

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I think Hottrotter has started using his new screen name.....:rolleyes:

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It doesn't make any difference to your widow how short-staffed your department was when you did something stupid in an effort to overcome that manpower shortage. Our number one priority on the fireground is personal safety, period. Sure, you can raise an extension ladder by yourself. But is it worth it?

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fireEMSgrrrl- stick to the EMS side of things. It obvious your firefighting skills, abilities, basic fire ground task knowledge is a little lacking.

We've always called it the "one man slam", because when ya bring the ladder up from the ground, you kinda throw it into the building.
We thought it was funny to leave divots in the training tower.
(I know, but we were young recruits...)
Learned the same way at 3 different academies, including the Wa State one at North Bend.
Not sure what all the fuss is about.

I can't believe how many don't know why you would do this and how many have not done it before.

Here is how it's done:

http://longbeach.granicus.com/MediaP...publish_id=222

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Originally Posted by masterFF

In the video it appears that the halyard was tied around both rungs. (bed and fly) Is this common practice?

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Not sure, we never tie the 2 sections together unless the ladder is raised, and honestly most of the time we don;t even do it then. If those dawgs fail, we have bigger issues. Having it tied to only the base section allows instant extension upon being raised.

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Originally Posted by MG3610

http://youtube.com/watch?v=PQE7OKKPT...e=user&search=

Here's a Video

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Great video!

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Originally Posted by ffscm72

Great video!

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Comare the guy from FDNY and the guy from Long Beach to fugure which way is a faster more fluid type motion. I think it is obvious. Not saying FDNY did it wrong, but just think Long Beach has a much better technique.

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Originally Posted by FireEMSgrrl

Sure, you can raise an extension ladder by yourself. But is it worth it?

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It might damned well be. I've done it. It ain't impossible.

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Originally Posted by KingHippo

Another way to raise an extension ladder with one person, without butting the ladder against the building:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=wuYPfW1QVps

And if you're interested, the 2 person 35 ft. evolution (again, without the ladder butting against the building):

http://youtube.com/watch?v=7u0b-6JrA...elated&search=

This agency raises ladders with the fly section facing the building (the manufacturer has no problem with this). It would be fairly easy to roll the ladder once it is up if you want the fly section out.

Just another way of skinning a cat.

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Great videos. I agree that while maintaining standards to be safe, and essentially trying to beat the essentials of ladder safety into our recruits while new, I have no issue with looking outside the box to make sure essential fireground functions occur, especially in a life safety situation.

I do find it humorous though that they don't flip the fly section to be towards the building (we had this beat into us) and that they don't climb the ladder grasping the beams instead of the rungs (again, beat into us...) Not saying their way is a wrong way, just that if you'd listen to my academy instructors it was a life and death thing. Hell, the book would have us tie off the halyard with mom waiting at the window dangling a baby. I'm telling you, call the safety police, but I'm not tying it then.

As much as we like to think that every fire will allow us to single man raise a ladder with the butt against the building, we know it won't happen some time. I think this would be a great video to show our guys and have them practice, just in case they need to do it by themselves.

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Originally Posted by npfd801

As much as we like to think that every fire will allow us to single man raise a ladder with the butt against the building, we know it won't happen some time.

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How about most of the time. How many have laddered a normal residence with eaves. Not going to work sticking it up against the building.