bush truck/rapid response specs

[firemanmikey]

I have a meeting this Tuesday for the purchase of our new rapid response/ bush unit, or what ever we'll call it. I was wondering if anyone had any specs I could show the Rural Board (guys paying for the truck). If you have a copy you could e mail me that would be great! My e mail is mzajac@wetaskiwin.ca

I will black out any names on the specs as well or you can delete them if you like.

Thanks again,

Mike

[WCENG23]

Toyne has a Quick Attack demo unit on an F-550 on their website. The specs and drawings can be downloaded as well.

www.toyne.com

[Firemannibroc]

We have just ordered are new Brush pumper you should checkout www.blanchatmfg.com they have some pretty cool ideas we decide on the Chaparral Series with a 500 gallon tank on a Ford F550

[wfire32]

How maneuverable is and F550 with duals off road, or any truck with duals for that matter?

[ecfr1978]

I wanna know how to get my dept. to buy the crewcab 4 axle tanker (Gunfighter Series) with matching tractor and trailer.

[mcaldwell]

How maneuverable is and F550 with duals off road, or any truck with duals for that matter?

The duals aren't the problem, but the wheelbase. Duals just limit your trail ability due to the width.

Most F350/450/550 units are on the quad cab, long box chassis, and they turn like a bus.

A standard or short box regular cab is much better, but can result in a lot of body overhang and poor departure angles.


Even a full size engine with a SWB will often out-turn them significantly.



We are looking to supplement ours next year with a dedicated full size wildland engine in this scale.





Here is our current light brush/utility. Drives very well on logging roads, but don't expect to turn it around on the trail.

[Ledebuhr1]

Do you have a skid unit in the back of that F350? if so, how big of one? Is it harder to used with the cab on it?

Our brush trucks are to take off roading not mud bogging.

[cafyrman]

In the category of mine is bigger than yours, here's our heavy brush rig. We have one in service and two more that we're trying to get to work right before accepting. It doesn't look so big in the picture, but those tires come up to mid-chest.
http://www.ssfire.com/apparatus/7/im...ltra-XT-SM.jpg

We also have four Pierce Fire Hawks. Pretty nice rigs. Well, except that steam coming out of the crankcase vent in mine.
http://www.piercemfg.com/apparatus/Hawk_BLM_14.cfm

I'd think the Pierce would be what you're looking for.

[Weruj1]

We have just ordered are new Brush pumper you should checkout www.blanchatmfg.com they have some pretty cool ideas we decide on the Chaparral Series with a 500 gallon tank on a Ford F550

who is running that triple axle Gunfighter thingy >? HOLY CRAP !!! :eek

[mcaldwell]

Do you have a skid unit in the back of that F350? if so, how big of one? Is it harder to used with the cab on it?

Our brush trucks are to take off roading not mud bogging.

It carries a 100gallon aluminum tank in fire season, with an assortment of portable pumps and hand tools.

It's primary role is not wildland, it's more of a utility that is slowly being built for medical and rescue duty.

We use our old SWB 79 king-seagrave engine for that. That is the engine that will be replaced with a new fullsize 4x4 chassis.


The f350 is fine for grass fires and open trails, but not for tight forest work.

[FyredUp]

firemanmikey: I have a meeting this Tuesday for the purchase of our new rapid response/ bush unit, or what ever we'll call it.

Okay let me throw my opinion in here on this topic.

1) Most people when designing a rapid response / brush truck make a HUGE mistake and try to put too much equipment and capability on too small a chassis.

2) Smaller rigs like the Ford F550 and the GMC 5500 are not designed to carry the weight or set up to run pumps of any real size. Let me calrify the pump point...without a manual transmission.

3) There are chassis choices that are still reasonable but offer far better value in the long run.

Want more clarification of my opinions? I would be happy to elaborate.

FyredUp

















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[bjlffire]

What does that Chaparrel rig cost, looks like A good truck.

[Catch22]

who is running that triple axle Gunfighter thingy >? HOLY CRAP !!! :eek

That is huge! I want one.

You think it needs that third axle to be able to handle the trailer? Not that I'm used to seeing a pumper/tanker pull a trailer, but if it works for them it's an interesting concept.

[npfd801]

Okay let me throw my opinion in here on this topic.

1) Most people when designing a rapid response / brush truck make a HUGE mistake and try to put too much equipment and capability on too small a chassis.

2) Smaller rigs like the Ford F550 and the GMC 5500 are not designed to carry the weight or set up to run pumps of any real size. Let me calrify the pump point...without a manual transmission.

3) There are chassis choices that are still reasonable but offer far better value in the long run.

Want more clarification of my opinions? I would be happy to elaborate.

FyredUp

I'd like to hear your thoughts. We went away from the mini pumper concept and ended up with an urban interface type rig, after realizing we'd end up giving up too much of what we wanted to do on an F series chassis.

[FyredUp]

npfd801...

Okay from one salesman to another? Sorry couldn't resist that.

I have a hard time understanding why so many FD's say they need a small manueverable rig then buy a 550 or 5500 and try to equip it to do what a full sized pumper will do. I know you have seen this too. A "mini" pumper with 3 or 4 preconnects, a deck gun, 1000 feet of 5 inch, hydraulic rescue tools, 4 or more scba and spare cylinders, ladders, hard suction, and more. A neighboring FD to me has one of these 550's with a 4 door cab and high side compartments and it was overloaded before they started to equip it. They had it resprung and added helpers. It is almost level now. But tell me...how will it stop? It can hardly turn sharp enough to get out of it's own way.

If you buy a GMC 5500 there is no way to get an automatic transmission to run the pump and not VOID GMC's warranty by having to jury rig the throttle set-up.

There are several manufacturers that build chasis that are not tremendously bigger than a 5500 that have far more capabilities than that chassis. i won;t insult your intelligence here by listing them. Honestly though, the penny wise and dollar foolish decision to go with a 550 or a 5500 and then try and put as much equipment on them as many do is a diservice many builders pay to the fire service.

FyredUp

[npfd801]

I agree with everything you said. Mini rigs have a place - we have a manpower unit on an F-350 with a cascade that is ideal - simple, cheap, and essentially disposable. When it gets replaced, it won't cost much to replace, and it takes wear off the big rigs when running to nosebleeds and hangnails.

We sold the larger chassis unit to our board over a mini pumper by dividing up the life expectancy. We'll get fifteen years from the IH, ten from an F-550 (and we have two F-550 rescues that are overloaded, they'll be lucky to make 10 years). Put fifteen years into the cost of the bigger chassis unit, and ten into the cost of a mini pumper, and the cost per year was interesting, especially considering the added capability of the larger unit.

There's a couple of smaller units running around on the smallest of IH and Freightliner chassis. Someone was thinking there...

[firemanmikey]

FyredUp, could you give me a few things to take to the meeting tomorrow. Like for example, what works and what dosen't and what are some things that might be a good idea to have.

I agree with you on the weight issue. This is our first crack at specing a brush rig. The final say is from the rural board members. They are calling it a brush truck, however; they want it to perform vehicle extrication as well. I think if we have 300 gal of water, jaws (etc), and a pump big enough to fight vehicle fires (what they want). I agree it's going to be getting too heavy. They keep mentioning a F-550. We have some Ford mechanics on the Dept and they said stay away from them. I've also heard other Depts say to stay away from them as well. One Dept said they blew up 2 motors on F-550 ambulances and blew up a bush truck motor.

I'm kind of confused on what to suggest. I like the Chev 5500.


Your thoughts,

Mike

[FyredUp]

firemanmikey: FyredUp, could you give me a few things to take to the meeting tomorrow. Like for example, what works and what dosen't and what are some things that might be a good idea to have.

I agree with you on the weight issue. This is our first crack at specing a brush rig. The final say is from the rural board members. They are calling it a brush truck, however; they want it to perform vehicle extrication as well. I think if we have 300 gal of water, jaws (etc), and a pump big enough to fight vehicle fires (what they want). I agree it's going to be getting too heavy. They keep mentioning a F-550. We have some Ford mechanics on the Dept and they said stay away from them. I've also heard other Depts say to stay away from them as well. One Dept said they blew up 2 motors on F-550 ambulances and blew up a bush truck motor.

I'm kind of confused on what to suggest. I like the Chev 5500.

Your thoughts,

Mike

Mike,

Remember I am a salesman, but I will give you my honest opinion because I am a firefighter first. I also will give you my opinion from my view point and I will not attack any other fire truck manufacturer's product.

I need to ask you a couple of questions but I will answer your questions based on my assumptions.

First question: Transmission? Automatic or standard?

Second question: Pump size? Would you like a full Class A rated fire pump of between 1000 and 1500?

Okay here we go. From what you have said this is NOT a brush truck. This is a cross between a brush truck and an initial attack / rescue truck. In my humble opinion you need to step up to a bigger chassis like the GMC 7500 or a Freightliner or an International. Why? Ability to carry the weight you want in water and equipment and personnel without overloading the chassis. And the ability to have a full size Class A rated fire pump of from 1000 gpm to 1500 gpm.

Here is a big one for you to consider. With the GMC 5500 there is no way to get an automatic transmission and and have a throttle set-up for running the pump that does not void the factory warranty. I am not sure if that applies to the F 550 or not, but I do know that with either one you are limited to a PTO pump of 500 gpm or less with an automatic transmission. In order to get a bigger or Class A rated fire pump you need to get a standard transmission.

I have heard through the grapevine that when Ford runs out of the International diesel engines it has been putting in the F 550 they will not be putting diesels in them anymore. Apparently there has been finger pointing in both directions over who is responsible for some of these engines failing prematurely. So if you want a diesel F 550 you need to act quickly.

Okay forgive me for a little sales pitch here but if you would like specific information on what my company has to offer please e-mail me and I would be happy to send you some information.

If I can be of further help please feel free to contact me, I am glad to help one firefighter to another.

Good luck with this. Buying a fire truck can be a wonderful experience if you get it right, or it can be a 20 year reminder of what you did wrong.

FyredUp

[Ledebuhr1]

FyredUp,

Ford will always have diesels in the superdutys. they just came out with a all new diesel built by International. its a 6.4l with 650ftlbs. Yes their were some problems with the first two years of 6.0l engins, but thoes have been delt with. Ford has to much too loose to screw up the new diesel.

[firemanmikey]

I'll let you know what was decided on as we have our meeting tomorrow morning.


Mike