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  1. #1
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    Default old ways to new ways

    I'm A Captain On A Volunteer Department In The State Of Ohio. I've Been On The Dept. For 15 Years. My Question Is How Do We Get These Old Timers To Step Up With The Times And Get Them To Understand That The Way You Did Things 10 -15 Years Ago You Can't Do Them Now And Even Get Them To Buy More Advanced Equip?


  2. #2
    MembersZone Subscriber dday05's Avatar
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    Change is hard to accept in the fire service as you know. The only thing I can say is prove your methods as to why "we" do things different these days compared to the "old days" ex( like using 5" instead of 2 1/2 for a supply line or wearing scba's more then they did)I've found if you can prove your point with them they'll accept it. I know it's a big PIA but I guess you gotta do whatever to accomplish your goals/tasks. Good Luck!

  3. #3
    MembersZone Subscriber MalahatTwo7's Avatar
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    I don't have any suggestions for tricks to help things go smooth, other than to say presentation is EVERYTHING.

    The essance of what dday05 says is true. But if you make the wrong presentation, you will hit the brick wall, and get no where. Make the right presentation, and you will kind of "sneak it in" and by the time the old guys fully realize that there's been a change, it too late. Now, I didnt say to sneak the change in.... I just meant that you need to do it right, and make the presentation of what you want to change seem logical and efficient/effective.

    This is one of those situation where a "Bigger Hammer" wont work.
    If you don't do it RIGHT today, when will you have time to do it over? (Hall of Fame basketball player/coach John Wooden)

    "I may be slow, but my work is poor." Chief Dave Balding, MVFD

    "Its not Rocket Science. Just use a LITTLE imagination." (Me)

    Get it up. Get it on. Get it done!

    impossible solved cotidie. miracles postulo viginti - quattuor hora animadverto

    IACOJ member: Cheers, Play safe y'all.

  4. #4
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    I agree with both Malahat and dday. As for presentation, the best method will depend on the personality of your firehouse and maybe even individual personalities. Around here, discussions starting with can we try this, or why do we do it this way will work much better than department XX does it this way, or my paid department does this.

    I would also say to remember and take it slow. Start making small changes and pick your battles.

  5. #5
    MembersZone Subscriber MalahatTwo7's Avatar
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    Start making small changes and pick your battles.
    AMEN to that one Brother!
    If you don't do it RIGHT today, when will you have time to do it over? (Hall of Fame basketball player/coach John Wooden)

    "I may be slow, but my work is poor." Chief Dave Balding, MVFD

    "Its not Rocket Science. Just use a LITTLE imagination." (Me)

    Get it up. Get it on. Get it done!

    impossible solved cotidie. miracles postulo viginti - quattuor hora animadverto

    IACOJ member: Cheers, Play safe y'all.

  6. #6
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    Hey capngeo: If you don't type your messages with caps lock turned on, the forum won't print them with the goofy mode of the first letter capitalized in each word.

  7. #7
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    Default Lol!!!!!

    We've always done it that way, why change? I think has something to do with traditions. Until you can show that the traditional way is no longer valid you will have a tough time implementing any change at all. Well, got to go feed the horse in case we have a fire tonight.

  8. #8
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    Default Just be sure your "new ways"...

    ...are actually better, and not just new.

    A department in my area got a new Chief a few years back. He was that town's first paid Chief, retired from a career department in Massachusetts. Out on the first drill after he started, the guys were pumping from a hydrant while running a hose drill. The new chief wasn't satisfied with the flow, and jumped up to show the pump operators how it should be done, complete with a lecture on the importance of keeping adequate water supplied to the nozzle (which I guess he thought would never have occured to them otherwise). Then he cranks open the pump.

    And collapses the water main.

    Sometimes there are very good reasons for "the way things have always been done".

  9. #9
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    FD Laws of nature: With change, comes resistance to change.

    Like the younger guys, the older guys usually tend to stick together, some times it works better to work on one man at a time. If you get one older one on your side, he is more apt to reach the others than you are.

    Remember a lot of the older guys learned things the hard way, the training we have today was not out there for them, they learned from experience and some of those lessens where tough, and all of those lessons are what made the training we have today, so it is not going to be easy to change a group, but one of their own by comparing the new to some of their experiences will stand a better chance of getting the point across.
    http://www.midsouthrescue.org
    Is it time to change our training yet ?

  10. #10
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    If/when you win one of those chosen battles, don't gloat or rub it in. Stay humble and deferential, or it will blow up in your face and your new era of regime change will be over.
    You only have to be stupid once to be dead permanently
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    and is willing to take command. Very often, that individual is crazy. - Dave Barry.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by randsc View Post
    ...are actually better, and not just new.

    A department in my area got a new Chief a few years back. He was that town's first paid Chief, retired from a career department in Massachusetts. Out on the first drill after he started, the guys were pumping from a hydrant while running a hose drill. The new chief wasn't satisfied with the flow, and jumped up to show the pump operators how it should be done, complete with a lecture on the importance of keeping adequate water supplied to the nozzle (which I guess he thought would never have occured to them otherwise). Then he cranks open the pump.

    And collapses the water main.

    Sometimes there are very good reasons for "the way things have always been done".
    Exactly why asking why we do things the way we do is a good approach. Our older guys have a lot of experience and there are good reasons for most of our SOG's. A couple still need some work though.

  12. #12
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    Smile

    One thing that you may try is taking a recent incident and do a table top evaluation of the incident. Take it step by step and at each step note this is what happened. Then ask what could we have done differently to improve the situation. Then show what the results would be and prove why it is better to do it that way. Educate them if you will. Start from when the first unit arrives on scene. How was it set up? Can we improve? Second unit on scene. Did he supplement the first unit or get in the way? How do we improve to acheive an efficient operation? Continue this through the entire incident. But encourage the members that don't like change to participate. Get them involved and ask them questions. If they say that's the way we have always done it. Ask them, Did you ever try this. If no ask them what would happen. The reason the older generation does not accept change is that it's unknown to them. This is why we need to get them involved in seminars and training to educate them and get them to think outside the box. Just my three cents.

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