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  1. #21
    Forum Member islandfire03's Avatar
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    Thanks one bugle : we did exactly that . Had our app read over by a chief officer from a nearby career dept. that has 30+ years experience. His only comment was that we didn't ask for enough money for mounted equipment to add on to the truck. We thought that keeping the cost down on accessories which we could fund in-house would make the app more winnable. Back to square 1 for 2007.


  2. #22
    MembersZone Subscriber ktb9780's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by islandfire03 View Post
    In the last ten years we have replaced two 60's engines and added a heavy rescue to our service. .
    Without knowing a lot about your department and IMHO, this statement right here is what killed you guy. According to this, three of your trucks are 10 years of age or newer; therefore the average age of your fleet is way to new for them to prioritize a truck as being a priority for you, when they still have departments out here applying that have an average fleet age of 30+ years.
    Kurt Bradley
    Public Safety Grants Consultant

    "Never Trade Skill for Luck"

  3. #23
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    Wink Average Fleet Age or Age of vehicle requesting replacement

    This got me thinking, in our fleet we have a 1996 pumper, a 2003 light rescue, a 2004 AFG tanker and a 1992 pickup. We are considering going for either a skid mount pump for the pickup as equipment or going for a whole brush truck as a vehicle since the chassis has 100K+ miles and the rear body is rusted and beat to death. We currently have no brush/quick attack vehicle of any age or type. Do you think the other trucks being <10 y.o. would computer DJ us under vehicles even if we have NO brush truck of any age? This seems like it would not be how DHS would rank need, I would have guessed it would use the avergae age of vehicles in the class you are applying for. We are similar fleet to islandfire 03 who has a 25 y.o. brush truck in the class being requested but everything else is newer. We have nothing in brush, but everything else is newer.

    I understand the low odds as a vehicle, but, if we go as equipment can we ask for money to mount the pump and refurb or build a new rear body to make the current truck an NFPA 1906 compliant brush truck or just money for the skid mount pump unit?

  4. #24
    Forum Member islandfire03's Avatar
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    Quote By KTB"Without knowing a lot about your department and IMHO, this statement right here is what killed you guy. According to this, three of your trucks are 10 years of age or newer; therefore the average age of your fleet is way to new for them to prioritize a truck as being a priority for you, when they still have departments out here applying that have an average fleet age of 30+ years.
    Thanks for your input Kurt! every little bit helps us novices understand the program
    I misspoke slightly checked our veh.list today: our fleet consist of
    1982 1 ton 250/250 4 whl. drive mini pumper /brush truck 2 FF
    1985 1400 gal tanker with 300 gpm PTO pump 2 FF
    1991 1000/1000 ford pumper 2 FF
    1995 Medtech ambulance
    2000 1000/1000 CAFS engine 2 FF replaced a 1958 750/750 ford pumper
    2003 Heavy rescue /Mobile cascade system /light & power unit/cold water & ocean rescue /command veh. /rehab truck, 4 FF in body + driver & officer in cab.

    We built the rescue truck to carry all the extrication tools and cold water rescue gear that was formerly mounted on the brush truck in order to improve the safety of operating the mini which was extremely over loaded and unsafe to drive with the water tank full.

    All of our apparatus are built on commercial cab chassis with very few bells or whistles just functionality for our rural location. I guess what I'm reading is because we have been fiscally responsible and busted our humps fund raising to try and maintain up to date equipment that we shouldn't waste our time applying for AFG !
    Last edited by islandfire03; 02-15-2007 at 05:49 PM. Reason: spelling correction

  5. #25
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    What they look at for vehicle ages is what did you buy compared to what you're applying for. So you bought a heavy rescue/cascade instead of something smaller like a light rescue that cost much less and also buying a new brush truck. So to an extent our decisions about what we do with our own money make a difference. I'm not questioning why you did it, makes sense on what you did.

    But with a computer denial your stats aren't pointing to a brush truck as a large need. Tanker might be a better chance to beat the computer.

  6. #26
    MembersZone Subscriber ktb9780's Avatar
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    And still your average age only went to 14 yoa guy. You guys did what DHS expects everyone to do so don;t belittle yourself for using sound fiscal management. YOu just need to adjust priorities is all.
    Kurt Bradley
    Public Safety Grants Consultant

    "Never Trade Skill for Luck"

  7. #27
    Forum Member islandfire03's Avatar
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    We built our rescue on a brand new 2000 leftover GMC 7500 cabover chassis in 2003 that we purchased for less than we could buy a F450 chassis. once we had this large & long chassis with HD drivetrain we spent a lot of time to maximize the space and had a body built for us by a local builder. we decided to mount the cascade system on it to make it portable hence available to all the surrounding towns that like us were hauling empties 30 miles rt to fill. We were also able to make the truck fit into all of the required mission parameters we needed , but never had before. Instead of small portable generators we now could power proper and safe scene lighting, we could store cold water & ice rescue suits hanging instead of rolled up in stuff bags strapped on top of the hose bed, All extrication tools are now on one engine , on roll out trays instead of piled into every available space on different trucks. There are so many operational & safety benefits that were accomplished by building this truck to say nothing of how inexpensive we managed to build it for. We might be rural but we're not bumpkins

  8. #28
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    I wasn't disagreeing with the need by any means, it was a needed thing to do and y'all did it. By this post in a more cost-effective manner than most.

    But that's what the computer can't see when it's looking at 2003 Rescue Truck. Step 1 of any app is figuring out if you can beat Big Blue by knowing what is against you, Step 2 is making sure the Reviewers don't think it was a fluke by knocking them over the head with the answers to all of the questions they didn't even know they were going to ask. Now you know why it's fun?

  9. #29
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    Sounds like you used your abilities to provide what your department needed with the available resources. Excellent use of time and effort in my opinion. We have the same concept going, got lucky and had a chassis donated to us for a heavy rescue, now just waiting on the bed and to equip it. With the cascade did you allow for a fill station or what kind of setup do you have there? We are probably gonna mount a 4 bottle cascade on the truck and hopefully a mobile fill station. This truck will be the only heavy rescue in our region and has long been needed. You currently get a couple of light rescue trucks instead of having one truck to carry it all.

  10. #30
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    Oh if only Kurt and Brian could figure out all the equations on this computer scoring, just think of all the friends they would have then. Whats the next rank up from GURU?

  11. #31
    Forum Member islandfire03's Avatar
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    Limeforever: Because we were fortunate to find a leftover chassis that the dealer had been sitting on for three years he was willing to take any offer to move it out of his inventory.We paid just over half of the original sticker for it . This gave us a tremendous ability to sit down and design our dream truck .
    It has an eight bottle 6000 psi bank with a three bottle frag/fill station, the cascade system was our winning 03 AFG app. the compressor is at the station so we went with the 8 bottle bank to give us the ability to fill lots of bottles whether they are 2216 or 4500's.We can also fill SCUBA bottle for times when we are supporting the dive team in offshore rescue /recovery calls.
    There is an eight foot cab at the front of the body with 4 rear facing SCBA seats so when we go mutual aid we can supply a full crew + officer packed and ready to go. All of our EMT's have been trained to operate the fill station and to provide proper medical evaluation and rehab. we managed to find room for a few folding camp chairs in an upper compartment so when a FF comes out of the fire ground he gets a quick evaluation and water while his bottle is changed . The command compartment also has full EMS supplies and an ALS bag /defib etc for the treatment of an injured or sick FF. Our SOG's allow the EMT's to pull the FF off the line with the full support of the chief and safety officer. We also have several backboards a floating stokes , & a little giant ladder on shelves above the bottle bank.
    !5 KW harrison hydraulic genset is mounted up on the rear roof of the body behind a 20' pneumatic 4 head light tower. Rear of the truck has all the car crash toolsand equipment and a 200' cord real allowing us to pull power to the scene and dismountable tripod lights, plus the Kinman combi tool on a 100' reel on a slide out tray. They cut the rear frame behind the suspension and lowered it to make the roll out tray with jaws at thigh level instead of chest height.
    Down the left side is a compartment with two portable gas powered pumps, an electric cellar pump, a huge PP ventilation fan, and storage above for all our rope rescue and safety lines along with a life-ring . mid comp has the bottle bank horizontal over the rear axle shifted to driver side to offset the weight of the frag chamber on pass side. front left has slide out tool board and the survival suit hang up closet with a ventilator to prevent the suits from getting moldy when put away wet. Front bumper compartment holds a 9000lb warn quick mount winch with receivers on all 4 sides of truck for mounting.
    All of the above and it was about $200,000 less than quotes from the big boys to build a similar truck. Yankee frugality at it's best

  12. #32
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    Derrick, what do mean if I could figure out the computer scoring?

    Have to remember career nerd here, schooled in years of analyzing business systems to figure out what they do under the hood. Haven't done a full set of analysis for 2006 but figured out quite a few of the magic lines in the sand. Not exact since the game changes for next year since all new apps are going in, but there are several obvious lines of demarcation in various statistics that determine Peer or No Peer. Helps to guide, more importantly, lay out the cons to the project.

  13. #33
    Forum Member islandfire03's Avatar
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    BC79er Now you know why it's fun?
    about as much fun as a visit to the proctologist :-]

  14. #34
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    Wink NFPA 1906 - anybody have electronic copy????

    Is there a place on the web to view or download this standard as a .pdf? Just need some basics on what is required.

    If you have it, please email me
    JGibson13@twcny.rr.com

  15. #35
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    You can view (only) an electronic version of NFPA 1906 at:

    http://www.nfpa.org/aboutthecodes/Ab...ookie%5Ftest=1

    At bottom of page click on "Preview this document"
    Next page click "I agree"
    Next page click "OPen NFPA 1906"

  16. #36
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    The basics should be somewhere in the forums if you do a search on NFPA 1906 in the Apparatus forum.

    Also if you search fireengineering.com for it there's something over there too.

    islandfire, sometimes it feels like we've been to a lobotomy performed by a proctologist through the latter's means of access.

    Plenty of psychology in this program though. We'll be going over that tomorrow in MO.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC79er View Post
    I wasn't disagreeing with the need by any means, it was a needed thing to do and y'all did it. By this post in a more cost-effective manner than most.

    But that's what the computer can't see when it's looking at 2003 Rescue Truck. Step 1 of any app is figuring out if you can beat Big Blue by knowing what is against you, Step 2 is making sure the Reviewers don't think it was a fluke by knocking them over the head with the answers to all of the questions they didn't even know they were going to ask. Now you know why it's fun?

    BC

    What year is this truck for Fire Grant app? I think the title down at the courthouse would read 2000 (now 2003).

    Chassis 2000 (New or used/w x miles). Someone constructed a rescue body on it in 2003 and place in service in 2004.

  18. #38
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    Didn't catch that, but it is what the title reads. So if it's titled 2000, since that's when the chassis was built, then it's a 2000 model even though it wasn't built as a rescue until 2003. Won't do a lot of wonders for the average fleet age, but better chance as a 2000 than a 2003.

  19. #39
    Forum Member islandfire03's Avatar
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    Thanks for all of the input from the Gurus, I have decided to apply for a padded room retrofit for my office under health & well-being. Then they can lock me up when i start blathering about grant apps.

    Brian sure would to get to one of your seminars but don't see any listed in my part of the country.

  20. #40
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    Just make the room big enough for the rest of us.

    Which part are you in? Might have already been there. Or might be coming, I haven't listed the AL ones yet. Only one employee in my self-employed situation and he's kind of a slacker. Of course only one set, so I'll be posting that tonight, the other 1 or 2 I'm waiting on confirmation that we're having the 2nd and 3rd and their locations. Might only be 2 in that neck of the woods. Good thing is the sponsor now sells in TN so any department in TN can come to any of them also for free. Might be a longer drive, but still free is free. Luckily they're working on KY also so I'll be visiting more states next go round. Lots of frequent flier miles trying to cover 40 states. Will by the Mrs a nice sanity trip to somewhere so I get to breath longer.

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