1. #1
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    Default What is considered a "Brush/Attack"

    What would be considered a brush/attack truck on the Truck application?

    Would this truck fall under 1901 or 1906?

    If we apply for one it would be used for Auto accident response, First Responder, service and brus fires.

    We, like a great deal of other departments, currently have a 1977 FEPP 3/4ton dodge that we would like to replace.

    Thanks

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    For the brush truck that we were awarded in '05 it addressed NFPA 1906.

    A key factor is showing that the vehicle will be multi-functional (which appears what you are doing) rather than 1 dimensional. Our brush truck would be used for brush fires about 8 months out of the year. It was shown that it would be used also to tow any of 5 trailers, during the winter months for EMS calls during storm coverage, carry ice water rescue equipment etc.

    If you would like a copy of the narrative, send me an email (profile).

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    That would be great!

    bjlf@hotmail.com

    The sole job of this truck would not be limited to brush fires.
    We would run more of anyother type call than brush fires.

    Thanks

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    One bugle,
    Me too, me too please send me a copy of your narrative.
    Thanks so much.
    Glenn
    jamgwill@southernco.com

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    Guys,

    Narratives have been emailed.

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    Default Bugle, me too, brush narrative


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    Brush/Quick attack goes under 1906, and you can load it up as much as possible. So you can make a quick attack with rescue style bodies and all of those other goodies.

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    OK all you GURUS out there !
    How about if we were to purchase a new F-550 chassis with department funds, and apply for a flatbed body with compartments and a slide in Odin CAFS skid unit with a 350 gal tank. Would this be under equipment as it doesn't involve a "truck"?
    Also what about airpacks and hose & nozzles and accessory fittings to meet the requirements of 1906?
    We are trying to replace a 1982 mini 250/250 4 wheel drive brush /quick attack truck that has seen better days.
    We wrote what we thought was a winning app for AFG and DJ'd in the first round in 06.

    this is still our most pressing need to provide access to interface areas that are difficult to get into with our class A pumper. Long drives through the woods on semi improved roads.
    Also is anyone running a F-550 on super singles instead of duals?
    Appreciate any thoughts you might have!

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    It would be under equipment, but the question would be where is the equipment from the one you're replacing going? Odds are you'd need more than what you have, but this is where you have to distinguish between need and want. And at what point your request matching amount goes above the $ amounts of the stuff being requested.

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    Default Brush truck narrative

    onebugle,

    Can you send me a copy of that narrative please. Our military Dodge has almost rusted out from around the "bailing wire" holding it together.

    cordova_fire_rescue@yahoo.com

    Thank you

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    Thanks Brian: the truck to be replaced is a 1982 gas powered 454 Chevy 4 whl drive 1 ton mini that has a leaky steel tank and the pump needs a complete refurb /rebuild to make it work properly to meet pump certification. We now have to drive a 40 mile round trip to the nearest gas station which takes almost a 1/4 tank & the chassis is at the point of needing major rework to brakes & suspension components just to get a 3-5 year additional life span. We received a quote of almost 50 k to do all the work & realized that spending that much money to lengthen it's life was not a proper use of our limited funds. All the rest of our trucks & ambulance are diesel for which we have a supply tank at the station
    The truck has two 1985 MSA airpacks with steel bottles and spares that are no longer in serviceable [no longer able to get parts] condition. We would also be purchasing new liteweight vs. hard rubber suction hoses and would want to switch from 1 3/4 fire hose to 1" CAFS line. Equipment such as indian tanks and rakes /shovels would be swapped over from the old truck . This new truck would be used in a brush /wildland interface primary role but also as a first in unit to access some of the large weekend homes that are being built down long narrow drive ways in the woods. CAFS because we have to haul every gallon of water in with us plus could be used for exposure protection to adjacent structures.

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    Default other options??

    Does your State Forestry Service provide any funding for this type of project? I know that the Texas Forest Service will provide the funding for trucks. For a small brush truck, they will give up to $59,000 for CAFS and a large brush truck will bring in $113,000 in grant funds. It is almost a give me grant if you have all of the right requirements. May be another source to look into.

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    The only programs the state forestry office has are doling out 70's vintage deuce and a halfs. We got rid of one of them 15 years ago as unsuitable for our needs. They're not very good in our new england winters. They also supply parts to repair our indian tanks.

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    Default Narrative

    islandfire03,

    Expand on those points and you have a good start to your narrative.

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    Default narrative

    can I get a copy, thanks jhnealon@comcast.net

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    Cordova & bigkingfun1 narratives have been sent.

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    One Bugle As I said in our original post the AFG app we filed in 06 for a brush truck was in my opinion and the opinion of several others including a professional healthcare grant writer "A KILLER grant App" We included all of the above plus the economic justification and the closing of a naval air station in the town next to us amounting to job loss and a downturn in real estate property values. We really felt that this app was a 90% bet. DJ 'd from the computer.
    We did have a grant in 03 for a compressor and cascade system plus 4 packs for our new heavy rescue /command vehicle that we funded by ourselves. DJ'd in 04 for a emergency generator for station and community building, so we went out & begged borrowed & bean suppered to pay for that project. Not meaning to complain just trying to make sense of a program that only gets more confusing as time goes by.

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    several others including a professional healthcare grant writer
    Don't forget, apples and oranges here. Foundation based and other federal grants are in a completely different format than AFG so it takes some new and different thinking to get an AFG to happen. AFG is all about assessments first, then narrative. So even if they bullet-proofed the narrative for you if it wasn't the right project for the right department under the right conditions then Big Blue takes them out. Which is how I've ended up training quite a few municipal and non-profit grant writers in the ways of AFG. And several have returned the favor with showing me the other types. Everyone can always learn something.

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    Sorry, missed that one line about the DJ in the original post. As Brian pointed out if you can't get past the computer, no one reads the narrative. It could be the project doesn't jive with the statistics in the application, but you could have made mistakes and not realize it. Some departments make the same mistakes year in, year out because they don't know its wrong.

    A local department was getting DJ'd year after year. At one point a grant writer was hired, they along with some one else told them it was a winning grant. Guess what the big DJ. The Chief the following year (less than a week before the deadline) asked if I would look at the application (still going for SCBA & cascade). Within 5 minutes of scanning the application 4 red flags popped out. 3 out of 4 were wrong including under reporting personnel costs by over 100%. The 4th was a guess, but was correct when verified. The narrative was basically a shambles. Provided him with ideas for improvement. They were DJ'd late rounds. This year, awarded in the early rounds.

    My point is have someone outside the department (that you know & trust) that has some knowledge of the department make up etc. & have them take a glance at the info to see if anything unusual pops up.

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    I understand what you are saying Brian. We have done our needs and risk assessments and this is the most pressing piece of large capital equipment expenditure at this time. Next on the list is replacing an ambulance and after that a new tank truck. In the last ten years we have replaced two 60's engines and added a heavy rescue to our service. All of these have been financed through fund raising and various loans. We are not poor in inventory just short on cash reserves at this time to allow us to fully fund this project.

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    Thanks one bugle : we did exactly that . Had our app read over by a chief officer from a nearby career dept. that has 30+ years experience. His only comment was that we didn't ask for enough money for mounted equipment to add on to the truck. We thought that keeping the cost down on accessories which we could fund in-house would make the app more winnable. Back to square 1 for 2007.

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    Quote Originally Posted by islandfire03 View Post
    In the last ten years we have replaced two 60's engines and added a heavy rescue to our service. .
    Without knowing a lot about your department and IMHO, this statement right here is what killed you guy. According to this, three of your trucks are 10 years of age or newer; therefore the average age of your fleet is way to new for them to prioritize a truck as being a priority for you, when they still have departments out here applying that have an average fleet age of 30+ years.
    Kurt Bradley
    Fire/EMS/EMA Grant Consultant
    " Never Trade Skill for Luck"

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    Wink Average Fleet Age or Age of vehicle requesting replacement

    This got me thinking, in our fleet we have a 1996 pumper, a 2003 light rescue, a 2004 AFG tanker and a 1992 pickup. We are considering going for either a skid mount pump for the pickup as equipment or going for a whole brush truck as a vehicle since the chassis has 100K+ miles and the rear body is rusted and beat to death. We currently have no brush/quick attack vehicle of any age or type. Do you think the other trucks being <10 y.o. would computer DJ us under vehicles even if we have NO brush truck of any age? This seems like it would not be how DHS would rank need, I would have guessed it would use the avergae age of vehicles in the class you are applying for. We are similar fleet to islandfire 03 who has a 25 y.o. brush truck in the class being requested but everything else is newer. We have nothing in brush, but everything else is newer.

    I understand the low odds as a vehicle, but, if we go as equipment can we ask for money to mount the pump and refurb or build a new rear body to make the current truck an NFPA 1906 compliant brush truck or just money for the skid mount pump unit?

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    Quote By KTB"Without knowing a lot about your department and IMHO, this statement right here is what killed you guy. According to this, three of your trucks are 10 years of age or newer; therefore the average age of your fleet is way to new for them to prioritize a truck as being a priority for you, when they still have departments out here applying that have an average fleet age of 30+ years.
    Thanks for your input Kurt! every little bit helps us novices understand the program
    I misspoke slightly checked our veh.list today: our fleet consist of
    1982 1 ton 250/250 4 whl. drive mini pumper /brush truck 2 FF
    1985 1400 gal tanker with 300 gpm PTO pump 2 FF
    1991 1000/1000 ford pumper 2 FF
    1995 Medtech ambulance
    2000 1000/1000 CAFS engine 2 FF replaced a 1958 750/750 ford pumper
    2003 Heavy rescue /Mobile cascade system /light & power unit/cold water & ocean rescue /command veh. /rehab truck, 4 FF in body + driver & officer in cab.

    We built the rescue truck to carry all the extrication tools and cold water rescue gear that was formerly mounted on the brush truck in order to improve the safety of operating the mini which was extremely over loaded and unsafe to drive with the water tank full.

    All of our apparatus are built on commercial cab chassis with very few bells or whistles just functionality for our rural location. I guess what I'm reading is because we have been fiscally responsible and busted our humps fund raising to try and maintain up to date equipment that we shouldn't waste our time applying for AFG !
    Last edited by islandfire03; 02-15-2007 at 05:49 PM. Reason: spelling correction

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    What they look at for vehicle ages is what did you buy compared to what you're applying for. So you bought a heavy rescue/cascade instead of something smaller like a light rescue that cost much less and also buying a new brush truck. So to an extent our decisions about what we do with our own money make a difference. I'm not questioning why you did it, makes sense on what you did.

    But with a computer denial your stats aren't pointing to a brush truck as a large need. Tanker might be a better chance to beat the computer.

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