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  1. #1
    MembersZone Subscriber MalahatTwo7's Avatar
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    Default Auzzies And Obama

    Hmmmmmm.....

    Aussie PM fires shots on Democrat Obama over Iraq

    Sheldon Alberts, CanWest News Service Published: Monday, February 12, 2007

    SPRINGFIELD, Ill. - A leading international ally of George W. Bush on Sunday said the election of Democratic Senator Barack Obama as the next American president would mean a "victory for the terrorists" and leave the Middle East in chaos.

    In a rare intervention by a foreign leader into U.S. domestic politics, Australian Prime Minister John Howard ridiculed a proposal by Obama to completely withdraw American troops from Iraq over the next 13 months.

    Howard's unexpected criticism of Obama - an underdog candidate to win his party's presidential nomination - stunned Democrats even as U.S. conservatives joined the attack on the Illinois senator's dovish foreign policy views.

    "If I were running al-Qaida in Iraq, I would put a circle around March 2008 and pray as many times as possible for a victory, not only for Obama, but also for the Democrats," Howard told an Australian broadcaster.

    The Australian leader's remarks followed on the heels of Obama's weekend rally here to kick off his 2008 presidential campaign. The 45-year-old, a relative political novice elected to the Senate just two years ago, told supporters the U.S. should remove all American combat troops from Iraq by next March. Obama's proposed timetable is one of the most aggressive presented by any Democrat, including Senator Hillary Clinton, a competitor for the party's nomination.

    At his campaign announcement, Obama said "it's time to admit that no amount of American lives can resolve the political disagreements in the lives and heart of someone else's civil war."

    Australia has been part of the U.S.-led coalition in Iraq from the start of the war in 2003 and still has 1,400 troops deployed in the country, mostly in non-combat roles.

    "If everybody goes, Iraq will descend into total civil war and there'll be a lot of bloodshed," Howard said. "I think that will just encourage those who want to completely destabilize and destroy Iraq, and create chaos and a victory for the terrorists to hang on and hope for an Obama victory."

    Obama brushed off the political attack, saying he finds it "flattering" to be criticized by such a prominent Bush supporter.

    "If he's ginned up to fight the good fight in Iraq I would suggest that he call up another 20,000 Australians and send them to Iraq," he said during a campaign stop in Ames, Iowa. "Otherwise it's just a bunch of empty rhetoric."

    After Howard's remarks were publicized Sunday, U.S. Democrats told Howard to butt out of American politics.

    "It is bizarre," said Senator Ron Wyden, an Oregon Democrat. "You know, we'll make our own judgments in this country with respect to elections."

    But Rep. Duncan Hunter, a Republican presidential hopeful, said Howard had "earned a right to comment on the world stage about their partner in this endeavour, because they have been fighting side by side with us in Iraq."

    Howard's remarks, however impolitic, highlight one of the perceived weaknesses in Obama's candidacy - his lack of foreign policy experience.

    Leading U.S. conservatives cast Obama on Sunday as a pacifist who is not up to the job of protecting America in the war on terror. William Kristol, editor of the conservative Weekly Standard, said Obama's apparent decision "to run as a dovish candidate" would be a boon to Clinton, who has so far refused to propose a timetable for troop withdrawal.

    "Hillary Clinton will stay more hawkish than (Obama), and I do think that's good for Hillary Clinton," Kristol said on Fox News Sunday.

    An estimated 15,000 supporters braved frigid winter conditions at the Old State Capitol in Springfield on Saturday to hear Obama formally enter the 2008 presidential race.

    The choice of the Illinois capital as the starting point for the campaign was highly symbolic. The city was home to Abraham Lincoln and the site of his 1858 anti-slavery speech, in which he told Americans "a house divided against itself cannot stand."

    Obama, who also got his political start in Illinois state politics, said Lincoln's efforts to unite the country before the Civil War could be a lesson to contemporary American leaders.

    "Politics doesn't have to divide us on this anymore," he said.

    Obama, who trails Clinton in polls of U.S. Democrats, highlighted his opposition to the war during campaign stops Sunday in Iowa and Chicago.

    Even though Clinton has said the U.S. should start redeploying troops, it is "not clear" how and when she would begin the withdrawal, Obama told reporters.

    Alluding to Clinton's Senate vote in 2002 authorizing Bush to go to war, Obama said: "Even at the time, it was possible to make judgments that this would not work out well."

    In an interview broadcast Sunday night on CBS' 60 Minutes, Obama said he did not believe the issue of race would be a deciding factor in whether he wins the Democratic nomination.

    "If I don't win this race it will be because of other factors - (that) I have not shown to the American people, a vision for where the country needs to go - that they can embrace," he said.

    Obama's father was a black Kenyan immigrant and his mother a white woman from Kansas.

    Some African-American pundits and authors have even suggested Obama is not "black enough" to represent them on traditional civil-rights issues. {Good Grief }

    Obama, who struggled with his racial identity as a young man, dismissed the debate about his African-American credentials as ridiculous.

    "If you look African-American in this society, you're treated as an African-American," he told CBS. "It's interesting though, that now I feel very comfortable and confident in terms of who I am and where I stake my ground. But I notice that a I've become a focal point for a racial debate."

    © CanWest News Service 2007
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    He has a point.President Bush has caught Hell from people saying"There's not enough troops to get the job done"yet when he starts sending additional troops in,he catches it for that as well.Damned if you do,damned if you don't.
    I read in the morning publication recently that the only way the Democrats will be happy about how the war is being fought will be when one of them is in the White House again.Most likely then,they'll be doing exactly how it's being conducted now,but will have the support of the media due to their likeminded thinking.

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    Forum Member DaSharkie's Avatar
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    I still fail to see what Obama brings to the White House. I am all for outsiders coming in, but other than being Black and having a lot of media support (apparently) what does he bring?

    Universal Health Care, Higher Taxation, and the regular old Democratic causes, but what to offer up that will improve the lot of the common man?

    Oh yeah, The Democrats offer up no ideas other than to totally remove troops, but nothing about how to run the war. That is a little screwy.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

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    Forum Member MIKEYLIKESIT's Avatar
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    Default He's a shoe-in

    Oprah endorsed him.
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    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    I'll give the PM of Australia's recommendations on troop level validity when he has more than 1,200 troops in country.

    I'm for setting a date and getting out. There is no incentive for the Iraqis to bear the burden of securing their society as long as we are carrying it for them.

    That being said. I'm no fan of Obama's either. He's been in the US Senate two whole years and now he wants to be President. It would be like a probie getting out of the academy and applying to be chief before he finished probation.

    Right now neither party has any candidates that really attract me.
    Last edited by scfire86; 02-14-2007 at 02:05 AM.
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    Forum Member backsteprescue123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    He's been in the US Senate two whole years and now he wants to be President. It would be like a probie getting out of the academy and applying to chief before he finished probation.
    Good one! But as usual, I will try to stay out of the heated political discussions.
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    MembersZone Subscriber MalahatTwo7's Avatar
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    That being said. ... He's been in the US Senate two whole years and now he wants to be President. It would be like a probie getting out of the academy and applying to be chief before he finished probation.
    Being a "Stranger From a Strange Land" I have no voting rights here, but I agree with you on this one - similar thoughts passed through my mind too.
    If you don't do it RIGHT today, when will you have time to do it over? (Hall of Fame basketball player/coach John Wooden)

    "I may be slow, but my work is poor." Chief Dave Balding, MVFD

    "Its not Rocket Science. Just use a LITTLE imagination." (Me)

    Get it up. Get it on. Get it done!

    impossible solved cotidie. miracles postulo viginti - quattuor hora animadverto

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    Forum Member DaSharkie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I'll give the PM of Australia's recommendations on troop level validity when he has more than 1,200 troops in country.
    Good point, HOWEVER one must realize that the Aussies do live under a blnket of freedom burdened by us in teh South Pacific/Indian Ocean so they do not need a massive military (Yet). I say yet, because China lies to the North and they scare me more than Iran or N. Korea.

    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I'm for setting a date and getting out. There is no incentive for the Iraqis to bear the burden of securing their society as long as we are carrying it for them.
    Good point. Time to ***** or get off the pot as the saying goes.

    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    That being said. I'm no fan of Obama's either. He's been in the US Senate two whole years and now he wants to be President. It would be like a probie getting out of the academy and applying to be chief before he finished probation.
    But the same is true - to a point - of any Senator. There is a HUGE difference between being a legislator and being an executive. Even the great savior Hillary has only 6 years under her belt as a Senator which is not much more. However, her experience from being a "co-President" would be beneficial. But, she is too devisive of a person to really pull a concensus across party lines. You either love her or hate her so to speak.

    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Right now neither party has any candidates that really attract me.
    Mostly agreed. Bill Richardson of New Mexico intrigues me. At least he has Executive experience. Running a state means a hell of a lot more to me than being a Senator. Even McCain has only been a Senator for like 30 plus years (part of my problem with him is his time in political office making more of a problem than a solution.)
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

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    I'm not trying to instigate any feelings or emotions here but every time I hear Obama it seems to rhime with Osama and that just turns me off.

  10. #10
    MembersZone Subscriber MalahatTwo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lvwrench View Post
    I'm not trying to instigate any feelings or emotions here but every time I hear Obama it seems to rhime with Osama and that just turns me off.
    YEP. The first time I heard the name, I thought there had to be a mis-pronunciation of it.
    If you don't do it RIGHT today, when will you have time to do it over? (Hall of Fame basketball player/coach John Wooden)

    "I may be slow, but my work is poor." Chief Dave Balding, MVFD

    "Its not Rocket Science. Just use a LITTLE imagination." (Me)

    Get it up. Get it on. Get it done!

    impossible solved cotidie. miracles postulo viginti - quattuor hora animadverto

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    Forum Member MIKEYLIKESIT's Avatar
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    I am sure there are plenty of people that are uncomfortable with Barack Obama's name. That has to be THE worst reason for someone to not vote for him. I have not decided who to support but it wont be him. Obama is too green, too liberal to be elected president in 2008. What he does bring is charisma, smarts and the always underestimated group to the national dialouge.... Young voters. The college kids are energized by Barack Obama. He is a great speaker . He is also popular with middle/left leaning America because he has integrity and isnt extremely socially liberal. I would love to see a 2008 presidential campaign designed to cut the sound bites and get some real disscusion going on this country. That is a pipe dream, but we need to elect substance over the P.R./ B.S. that is the norm of todays campaigns.
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    MembersZone Subscriber MalahatTwo7's Avatar
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    Unfortunately Mike the "Power of the Voter" lies within the hands of the media. Like it or not (and personally I dont), the media with as you say the sound bites will promote or discredit as they choose, each candidate.

    I agree 100% that any National Leader should be voted in by the popular vote, through a solid basis of education - of each candidate. Which of course we will never truly get. And of course, each candidate actually needs to follow the political clap-trap that they spout, with promises that never seem to come to life. I acknowledge that sometimes things just dont work out the way they were intended - but most of the times political promises seem to be better termed political lies.
    If you don't do it RIGHT today, when will you have time to do it over? (Hall of Fame basketball player/coach John Wooden)

    "I may be slow, but my work is poor." Chief Dave Balding, MVFD

    "Its not Rocket Science. Just use a LITTLE imagination." (Me)

    Get it up. Get it on. Get it done!

    impossible solved cotidie. miracles postulo viginti - quattuor hora animadverto

    IACOJ member: Cheers, Play safe y'all.

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    Forum Member MIKEYLIKESIT's Avatar
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    Would it be safe to say that your opinions about the both good and bad things about the U.S. have changed since your time in D.C. Rick ? I always find it fascinating how people from other nations view our country and I can only imagine what you have learned since you are right in the thick of it....Both honey and muck.
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    MembersZone Subscriber MalahatTwo7's Avatar
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    Actually Mike, my "bad things" about the US have always been pretty localized to certain areas of both individual public behaviour and geographic limitations. And certainly my time on the "other coast" has given a very strong perspective in a positive way.

    Enough so that even Me, the Hard Core Westcoaster, could actually give consideration for a long term move this way.
    If you don't do it RIGHT today, when will you have time to do it over? (Hall of Fame basketball player/coach John Wooden)

    "I may be slow, but my work is poor." Chief Dave Balding, MVFD

    "Its not Rocket Science. Just use a LITTLE imagination." (Me)

    Get it up. Get it on. Get it done!

    impossible solved cotidie. miracles postulo viginti - quattuor hora animadverto

    IACOJ member: Cheers, Play safe y'all.

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    Yeah,so the bad guys will know how long to hunker down,bide their time and build up their strength so when we do leave,all Hell can break loose.
    That sounds like a great idea.
    What's going to happen if we just pull out now?Do you think that the folks who fought to return Hussein to power are going to just roll over now that he's gone,or do you think they'll try to put someone else who also has his own axes to grind with the current government in control?

    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I'm for setting a date and getting out. There is no incentive for the Iraqis to bear the burden of securing their society as long as we are carrying it for them.
    .

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    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doughesson View Post
    Yeah,so the bad guys will know how long to hunker down,bide their time and build up their strength so when we do leave,all Hell can break loose.
    That sounds like a great idea.
    What's going to happen if we just pull out now?Do you think that the folks who fought to return Hussein to power are going to just roll over now that he's gone,or do you think they'll try to put someone else who also has his own axes to grind with the current government in control?
    Doug. It beats the alternative of having our nation bear the most cost.

    I'm not willing to ask our men and women to sacrifice any more for people who aren't willing to step up and take control.
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    Forum Member ThNozzleman's Avatar
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    But Rep. Duncan Hunter, a Republican presidential hopeful, said Howard had "earned a right to comment on the world stage about their partner in this endeavour, because they have been fighting side by side with us in Iraq."
    Oh, ok; not "allies in a war", but "partners in an endeavour." Has a nice little ring of business as usual to it, doesn't it?

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    The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened. --Norman Mattoon Thomas, 6 time presidential candidate for the Socialist Party of America

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    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by txgp17 View Post
    It was only a matter of time before you invoked Godwin's Law.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    And yet now we have Kevin '747' Rudd as PM, who does lean towards Obama we got nothing......try being a half and half down here at the moment (Fathers from US, Mums from Oz)
    Oh, the debates I avoid around the stations are ridiculous.....most people have no idead just how tightly tied we are to the US

    BTW to the thread starter.......its Aussies or Ozzies.....don't bastardise the 2

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