+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 10 1234 ... Last
  1. #1
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    70

    Default Should All FF's be EMT's or above

    What do you think? I think yes. Our job is changing and i think we need to keep up with the times. Thats just me though. Discuss.

  2. #2
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Dickey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2000
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    5,111

    Default

    My personal opinion is that all FF's should be at least First Responder trained. Basic life support skills. My Department policy is that FF's are CPR trained, not everyone needs to be First Responder or EMT.
    Jason Knecht
    Assistant Chief
    Altoona Fire Dept.
    Altoona, WI

    IACOJ - Director of Cheese and Whine
    http://www.cheddarvision.tv/
    EAT CHEESE OR DIE!!

  3. #3
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Pacific Northwest
    Posts
    517

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by swfire42 View Post
    What do you think? I think yes. Our job is changing and i think we need to keep up with the times. Thats just me though. Discuss.
    "Discuss", he says.

    I tend to agree that some EMS training is prudent, how much is a matter of debate. Without any truly new insight, however, I fear that simply instructing us to "discuss" this sometimes sensitive topic will result in.....
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    You only have to be stupid once to be dead permanently
    IACOJ Power Company Liason
    When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution
    and is willing to take command. Very often, that individual is crazy. - Dave Barry.

  4. #4
    MembersZone Subscriber
    MalahatTwo7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Loco madidus effercio in rutilus effercio.
    Posts
    12,837

    Default

    Personally, I think its a good idea, however as Dickey said, at least qualifying the to BLS/First Responder level should be a minimum for all FF. In particular, the rural area FD's are the places where (at least in the part of Canada I stared with this business) is often first on the scene of any event, from the "Oww, I stubbed my toe" to "Dude you are really messed up" calls.
    If you don't do it RIGHT today, when will you have time to do it over? (Hall of Fame basketball player/coach John Wooden)

    "I may be slow, but my work is poor." Chief Dave Balding, MVFD

    "Its not Rocket Science. Just use a LITTLE imagination." (Me)

    Get it up. Get it on. Get it done!

    impossible solved cotidie. miracles postulo viginti - quattuor hora animadverto

    IACOJ member: Cheers, Play safe y'all.

  5. #5
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Northeast Coast
    Posts
    3,870

    Default

    No. CPR yes, licensed or certified EMT's-not if you job doesn't require it. The upkeep of skills and continueing education is just more time away from something else fire related. We are fast becoming Jack's of All trades, Master's of None. With all the talk of Back to Basics it should be obvious that we do not need any more mandates for things we are not doing! How about mandatory certification in ventilation, search, reading smoke and hoseline advances?

  6. #6
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Carrollton, TX
    Posts
    201

    Default

    I think every firefighter should be EMT basic for the simple reason of the occasional MCI. Requiring every single person on the dept to be paramedic is overkill though. First off even the most horrendous trauma call requires very little ALS intervention (the stay and play things beyond airway control) and would have better chances of survival if transported to the nearest appropriate facility quickly for surgery as soon as possible.

    The medical CPRs require at most 3 Paramedics: One on airway, one on meds, and one on the monitor. The basics can take care of all other things such as charting and getting history or more equipment. The medical calls that do require stay and play ALS support such as asthma attacks only require O2, IV, EKG and the Albuterol or Atrovent....2 paramedics can take care of that easily in less than 10 minutes....the other 3 guys from the engine just end up standing around with their thumbs up their butts waiting to be told they can go back to quarters.

    But as it stands now in this area, most departments want paramedic only. Staffing is 3 guys on the engine, 2 on the MICU so 5 of the highest trained medical professionals short of PA are sent to every single broken toe and "I've been coughing for the past 30 years and just now decided to tell someone at 3 AM" calls that come in.

    On the MCI you're only doing basic interventions on scene anyway. Even once you get enroute you'll probably still do basic interventions only because an ambulance can carry 5 patients at an MCI and that's too many to keep track of with advanced interventions. And you'll probably have more than one patient on board due to lack of ambulances.

    So yeah, everyone as EMT-B is good. I would say ECA, but an ECA cannot be used to staff an ambulance so once transport is initiated the ECA is practically useless.

    I am eager to see though if soemone will post any incidents involving a single patient where 5 or more paramedics were required and that a 3 medic 2 basic combo would not have been possible at all.

  7. #7
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    PG County, MD
    Posts
    428

    Default

    I know here about 99% of FF's are EMT-B's. I personally think that EVERYONE should have at least EMT-B. Yeah you have to waste some time with the refreshre courses, but let say you get a call for an MCI. If none of the FF's are EMT the county would have to waste its resources pulling more EMT's. Having FF's that are EMT's would prevent that.

  8. #8
    Forum Member
    FDAIC485's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Southeast aka Dixie
    Posts
    653

    Default

    It depends on which direction the department that you are involved in is going. If you are volunteer, I would say No to EMT. Hold on, I'm not stiring-up the paid vs.vollie crap..just listen. You should not have to mandate that someone who is giving up their own time to keep up the EMT cert. Plus, a department that provides EMS first-responder and/or transport could justify going with full-time personel if they want "to do it right."
    Now to the full-time FD's......the answer is Yes. If you are a career firefighter and you are not at least a basic, that FD's administration should all have their heads examined and/or fired. I know the FD that I work for would not have half the personnel or equipment if we did not provide EMS first responder and transport. You always have to question the messenger on this one. If you show me a firefighter that does not want to provide EMS in some form or fashion, I'll show you a person you will find in front of the TV or in bed sleeping at the earliest possible moment.

  9. #9
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Western Canada
    Posts
    62

    Default

    First of all, you have to assess your needs. If youíre out in the sticks and 50 miles from the nearest decent hospital, youíll need far more medical training than if youíre a few miles away.

    Iíve seen way too many EMS people at firefighter training courses that couldnít fight fire out of a wet paper bag, and end up ďpassingĒ the course because theyíre book smart. They come back to the hall thinking that theyíre superior in every way because they have a ton of training. When that crusty old jake tries to tell them something thatís going to keep them from getting killed, they roll their eyes because they know it all. Then out of the blue, the department beats the medical drum and all of the good old jakes get forced out, mostly by choice because they get tired of all the crap.

    Does this sound like sour grapes? Personally, I passed my NFPA 1001 with a 91% average and have 18 solid years fighting fire. Iím not about to dismiss advanced medical training because quite frankly its just another course. Right now I have far too much learning to do in the realm of firefighting and donít need the information overload. Iím content with trying to become the best FIREFIGHTER that I can, and deliver patients to the EMS people. As far as my crew is concerned, itís my job to make sure that they get a ride back on a fire truck and not an ambulance.

    Stay Safe

  10. #10
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,630

    Default

    IMO, it very much depends on the type of department.

    In the US, I think there is a the public in general has an expectation in most communties that a paid (either fully piad or combo) will deliver some form of EMS. It may be first response with a private/third service transport or a fire department first response and/or transport. The fire service, in fact, has created this expectation in the public's mind. Many paid departments in fact have gotten additional staffing based on this expectation, and we better be prepared to deliver. IMO, some department's have taken it too far, requiring all members to be paramdics. Both of the career fire departments in my area require all firefighters and most support folks including dispatch and shop folks to get EMT.

    On the volunteer side, I think that decision needs to be made on a local basis. In some places the volunteer or paid EMS is strong enough to function on thier own, and prefers to function on thier own, which is fine. In other areas, the community has expected the fire service to step up and deliver some level of EMS service. In many cases, this has brought the department extra visability, hence extra funding. I know that in the case of my combo department, much of what we have on the fire side is a direct result of the goodwill we have fostered as a result of our EMS activities. Without EMS, we would have much less. All our full-time folks, as well as our volunteers who work day shifts and fill in on the full-time slots are required to be EMTs. For our volunteer folks, it's an option, but since 85% of our runs are EMS, most get at least first responder simply to make more runs. The same is true with all of the surrounding combo fire districts.

  11. #11
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    2,503

    Default

    ....no....
    I am a complacent liability to the fire service

  12. #12
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    Berks County, PA
    Posts
    629

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by swfire42
    Should All FF's be EMT's or above
    No. It should be a local decision based upon local needs.

  13. #13
    FF-EMT
    Mzanghetti's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    183

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by swfire42 View Post
    What do you think? I think yes. Our job is changing and i think we need to keep up with the times. Thats just me though. Discuss.
    I started in my current volunteer dept as an emt only, and it took me a while to learn how to operate in the dept quite a while just on that level. I don't think you need to require all FF's to be EMT's right off the bat. Let the new people get their feet wet learning to be firefighters and then after two or three years experience give them the option of expanding their skills on the ems side. The same is true of the EMT's that join just to run on the ambulance. Give them a couple of years to get used to operating in the dept and then maybe push them to think about fire training.

    I don't want to comment on full time paid guys because it depends alot on what the chiefs and politicians are willing to fund, if the dept can't get enough funding to staff the big red trucks then don't require them to run EMS on top of everything else.
    Mark Zanghetti
    FF-EMT
    Goshen Fire Dept.
    Waterford, CT

  14. #14
    Forum Member
    DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Somewhere between genius and insanity!
    Posts
    13,584

    Default

    Massachusetts requires every police officer anfd firefighter to be trained to the minimum of first responder. They have to do 8 hours of refresher training every year.

    98% of the members of my FD are a minimum of EMT-Basic.

    We get 5% of base salary as compensation.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  15. #15
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    Here, There, Everywhere
    Posts
    4,191

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FDAIC485 View Post
    It depends on which direction the department that you are involved in is going. If you are volunteer, I would say No to EMT. Hold on, I'm not stiring-up the paid vs.vollie crap..just listen. You should not have to mandate that someone who is giving up their own time to keep up the EMT cert. Plus, a department that provides EMS first-responder and/or transport could justify going with full-time personel if they want "to do it right."
    Now to the full-time FD's......the answer is Yes. If you are a career firefighter and you are not at least a basic, that FD's administration should all have their heads examined and/or fired. I know the FD that I work for would not have half the personnel or equipment if we did not provide EMS first responder and transport. You always have to question the messenger on this one. If you show me a firefighter that does not want to provide EMS in some form or fashion, I'll show you a person you will find in front of the TV or in bed sleeping at the earliest possible moment.
    While I agree many of our staff chiefs should have their heads examined and our Commissioner be fired for incompetance, it isn't going to be for the reasons you cited.

    1. - My job, I would wager has much better staffing than yours or just about anyones on here. Why is that? Did we attempt to tie our staffing needs to BS EMS runs? No. We based our staffing on the needs for fires and emergencies and what it takes to properly maintain our safety margins while still being able to continue saving lives and property. We have possitions, assignments and duties and a comprehensive plan of attack for just about ever forseeable type of structure and fire within that structure. That my friend is the real answer. Don't forget that many cities staffing has recently become under attack, why? Because the same politicans who thought the expanded role of EMS in the Fire Dept would have been a good thing, accuse the firemen of being wasteful and unneccesary as it doesn't take 4 or 5 men and a Fire Engine for a Unresponsive male on the side walk. Not to mention they use statistical comparisions that the large percentage of EMS runs to Fire runs (even though fire runs remain at roughly the same level and each fire requires the same response) some how justifys a reduction in staffing! So EMS for those cities actually was only a temporary stop gap and now the cities have the firemen left, running EMS runs for cheap and still attained the end result they desired (reduced companies and staffing)

    2. - How many men does it take to run an EMS call? Usually 2 on a bus and 4for the rare but serious non-breathers. But 98% of the runs only requires two men on an ambulance. Doesn't help argue for more men now does it? Don't forget that any EMT's on a fire engine can't transport a patient either so that has little benefit in adding EMTs on a fire Engine when a Bus can help with Unit availability for the transporting bus and allowing the Engine Co's that do take in these runs to return to service that much quicker.

    3. EMS is hardly related to our job despite what some want to claim. Firefighting is a respectable blue-collar, skilled trade that involves hands on evolutions and hard physical labor with little need for administrative work outside of the ancilary documentation of runs and dispostion of them, usually done by the officer. Firefighters command decent salaries and benefits, usually better than most other municipal workers.

    EMS on the other hand is considered by most as a low to moderate paid, health care field with marginal benefits and a signifigantly high rate of burnout and turnover. There is tons of documentation and in comparision to Police officers appears more related than to the job of firemen. It is regarded as a white collar/medical field job and has minimal physical requirements. The compasion and human relation skills/traits that are found in those who gravitate towards these jobs, don't translate well to those found in those who gravitate towards being firemen. They don't even come close to commanding the same salaries and benefits as firemen do.

    4. There are litterally 1000s of men on my job would want nothing to do with EMS and they are among the best firemen in the world that certainly don't sit around on the couch, We drill twice a day(officaly and unofficialy at just about every box) and I would wager get much less "rest" or TV time than you do.(Not that I understand what that has to do with certifcations) Many don't like risking additional exposure to disease and filth for what amounts to about $2000 extra a year. Most of us would gladly give that back to not run those EMS runs.

    Does that mean we don't care to offer help when asked, no...but we certainly don't feel that we should be taking the jobs of hard working EMTs and Medics who belong to their own union for a fraction of the compensation in return to us. Some of us have more integrity than that.

    5. The only reason we do run EMS today is a sell out traitor within the Union who sold the men out for his own personal gain. We don't get nearly enough to justify the risk to ourselves and most importantly our families. If a man gets injuried at a fire, he and he alone is effected; If he takes home some disease to his wife and children well then everyone is affected and that is unacceptable to us for $2000 a year.

    6. Furthermore I was once a EMT and now I only have CFR-D. There really isn't much difference in terms of treatment around here. We still treat a Gunshot or stabbing the same, we treat a MVA the same, we give O2 to people who need it and stop the bleeding if neceesary and give compressions or Defib if needed. For the role we play, it is more than adequate.

    I think your view of the fire service and EMS is a bit limited and shortsighted.

    FTM-PTB
    Last edited by FFFRED; 02-14-2007 at 12:44 PM.

  16. #16
    MembersZone Subscriber
    dday05's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    1,331

    Default

    I feel it should be required to be atleast a first responder.Whats the thoughts when a fd with no medical training gets a mva with entrapment along with serious trauma. They cut the vehicle and yank the pt out just to sit them on the ground or what not then they stare at them until a squad arrives or what not. I think the fr class is only 40 hours, and even keeping up with a emt card is'nt that big of a problem.Thats all for now.

  17. #17
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    Here, There, Everywhere
    Posts
    4,191

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    IMO, it very much depends on the type of department.

    In the US, I think there is a the public in general has an expectation in most communties that a paid (either fully piad or combo) will deliver some form of EMS. It may be first response with a private/third service transport or a fire department first response and/or transport. The fire service, in fact, has created this expectation in the public's mind.
    In my time, in three very different departments, I would say the first thing I hear 90% of the time is something similar to this... "I called for an ambulance we don't need no firemans here." "Why do they send you?" or something along those lines.

    The idea that the public expects this, from my expereince is internally generated within departments full of azz-kissers (or those who owe their jobs to poltical patronage) who are looking to have their men do more work for less money. The public in the vast majority of cases doesn't expect this and only considers it a nice gesture and certainly not anything they come to demand or feel entitled to and that includes people who get more than their share of Entitlements, (Public housing, public assistance, WIC, Food stamps...etc.)

    FTM-PTB

  18. #18
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    225

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dday05 View Post
    I feel it should be required to be atleast a first responder.Whats the thoughts when a fd with no medical training gets a mva with entrapment along with serious trauma. They cut the vehicle and yank the pt out just to sit them on the ground or what not then they stare at them until a squad arrives or what not. I think the fr class is only 40 hours, and even keeping up with a emt card is'nt that big of a problem.Thats all for now.
    I believe Baltimore City requires everybody to go through EMT-A course as part of the academy. I seem to recall helping a buddy on the bookwork who made it in there.

    I agree you need at least the basics (whatever passes for that in your jurisdiction). My wife is getting tired of me saying "Make sure you move his spine around alot" when watching the television fire & EMS fiction.

  19. #19
    MembersZone Subscriber
    MalahatTwo7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Loco madidus effercio in rutilus effercio.
    Posts
    12,837

    Default

    "Make sure you move his spine around alot" when watching the television fire & EMS fiction.
    And here, I thought I was the only one who said things like that.
    If you don't do it RIGHT today, when will you have time to do it over? (Hall of Fame basketball player/coach John Wooden)

    "I may be slow, but my work is poor." Chief Dave Balding, MVFD

    "Its not Rocket Science. Just use a LITTLE imagination." (Me)

    Get it up. Get it on. Get it done!

    impossible solved cotidie. miracles postulo viginti - quattuor hora animadverto

    IACOJ member: Cheers, Play safe y'all.

  20. #20
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Wheaton IL
    Posts
    1,767

    Default

    Over half of our work is at EMS related jobs. You need to have a level of training that supports what we go on.
    If half of your calls were Haz Mat would you not support guys being Haz Mat techs? If 500 out of 1,000 calls were confined space rescues wouldn't you all be CS tech?
    If your department doesn't run EMS great, don't get your EMT-B. Even if that is the case you need to be a cretified first responder with CPR and AED.
    When people have a bad day we are called, the days of a fire crew standing by the patient pointing and waiting for the medics is over. If you get called for EMS then you need to be trained.
    I don't care if you only go because the department makes you, if when that ticket comes over it is for a first responder or ambulance assist then you need to be an EMT.

  21. #21
    MembersZone Subscriber
    KevinFFVFD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Vicksburg, Mississippi, USA
    Posts
    573

    Default

    it all comes down to one thing, does your fire department respond to all medical calls in your area? im mean lik do you have a crew on an engine who will roll to a medical call like many areas do? if so, you may want those firefighters to be trained in at least first responder. the city department here requires all firefighters to become an EMT withen the first year of being hired. the department i am on does not require firefighters to be ems trained. however, we do have members who are first responders, EMT-B, and Paramedic certified. our department is dispatched to medical calls, but only those who are medically trained are allowed to respond(we are a vollie department so ems crews respond from their home). at the same time, a rescue unit and ALS ambulance is dispatched to the call from the city. since our ems crew gets on scene way before they do and can provide care to the patient.
    so to make a long story short, i personally think that if your department has the resources than yes, they should be at least EMT-B.

  22. #22
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Richfield, NC
    Posts
    618

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    No. CPR yes, licensed or certified EMT's-not if you job doesn't require it. The upkeep of skills and continueing education is just more time away from something else fire related. We are fast becoming Jack's of All trades, Master's of None. With all the talk of Back to Basics it should be obvious that we do not need any more mandates for things we are not doing! How about mandatory certification in ventilation, search, reading smoke and hoseline advances?
    as everyones said look at your needs but require an EMT not really but a first or medical responders why not I know a department that is holding a class now that will last less than a couple months no clinicals and you should be able to host it at your department and should anyone want to continue on and knew they could do it around NC anyway they offer a bridge class.
    I believe it would take them longer to get a FF1&2 certification.

    just my thoughts though

  23. #23
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Western Canada
    Posts
    62

    Default

    As what usually happens, the EMS in the fire department debate usually talks only about medical calls and very little about actual firefighting. Iíve met a few advanced medically trained firefighters that were ok, however as I said earlier many couldnít fight fire through a wet paper bag. Most of these were jakes who later took advanced medical training and not the other way around.

    The notion that firefighters at MVAís stand around with a glazed look on their faces is ridiculous. On many MVAís that Iíve been on, itís been the opposite. Many times itís EMS that twists the green patients out of the car without proper access.

    All of our firefighters are trained in standard first aid and CPR/AED. We perform spinal/neck immobilization on everyone. We keep everyone warm and monitor their vitals. We treat the bleeding and try to keep patients calm until the bus gets there. Once the bus gets there, we keep the area secured, let them do their job, and help out any way we can.

    Our new firefighters need to be trained in and practice fire scene survival skills, and thatís a full time job. Things like reading smoke, proper ventilation, fire behavior, building collapse, proper pumping operations, and the lost art of nozzlemanship takes lots of training and experience. These things just canít be picked up in a thirty something hour course. Attention to detail is going to keep you and your crew as safe as possible. Interior firefighting is all about experience, pattern recognition and gut instinct. The crusty old jakes are going to teach you pattern recognition, and the things you need to know to survive.

    This watering down of the fire service has to end. When I took my NFPA pump course it was three books with around 700 pages to absorb. Now itís more like 150 pages. Sadly some wet behind the ears bus driver is going to think that theyíre a pump operator.

    Iím getting really tired of phenomenal firefighters getting forced out the door by slap happy EMS punks. Pretty soon weíll have the blind leading the blind and sadly in a few years nobody will know the difference. Fire engines will be something you look at in a museum, and ambulances will have 1500 gpm pumps.

    Stay Safe

  24. #24
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    Here, There, Everywhere
    Posts
    4,191

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by firefighter1962 View Post
    As what usually happens, the EMS in the fire department debate usually talks only about medical calls and very little about actual firefighting. Iíve met a few advanced medically trained firefighters that were ok, however as I said earlier many couldnít fight fire through a wet paper bag. Most of these were jakes who later took advanced medical training and not the other way around.

    The notion that firefighters at MVAís stand around with a glazed look on their faces is ridiculous. On many MVAís that Iíve been on, itís been the opposite. Many times itís EMS that twists the green patients out of the car without proper access.

    All of our firefighters are trained in standard first aid and CPR/AED. We perform spinal/neck immobilization on everyone. We keep everyone warm and monitor their vitals. We treat the bleeding and try to keep patients calm until the bus gets there. Once the bus gets there, we keep the area secured, let them do their job, and help out any way we can.

    Our new firefighters need to be trained in and practice fire scene survival skills, and thatís a full time job. Things like reading smoke, proper ventilation, fire behavior, building collapse, proper pumping operations, and the lost art of nozzlemanship takes lots of training and experience. These things just canít be picked up in a thirty something hour course. Attention to detail is going to keep you and your crew as safe as possible. Interior firefighting is all about experience, pattern recognition and gut instinct. The crusty old jakes are going to teach you pattern recognition, and the things you need to know to survive.

    This watering down of the fire service has to end. When I took my NFPA pump course it was three books with around 700 pages to absorb. Now itís more like 150 pages. Sadly some wet behind the ears bus driver is going to think that theyíre a pump operator.

    Iím getting really tired of phenomenal firefighters getting forced out the door by slap happy EMS punks. Pretty soon weíll have the blind leading the blind and sadly in a few years nobody will know the difference. Fire engines will be something you look at in a museum, and ambulances will have 1500 gpm pumps.

    Stay Safe
    You have some excellent points brother.

    Imagine if the Bricklayers thought that stucco was popular and something they should be doing in lieu of just brickwork and rather than doing just Brickwork they began doing Stucco about 1/2 the time. (not forgetting to mention the intrusion into other locals jurisdictions) In a few years how good would the skills of the Bricklayers be at doing what they formerly focused on all the time. Would the apprinticeces be learning all that the men before them had learned about their jobs as bricklayers? Would their skills and knowledge be eroding exponentially, with every generation that passes?

    The skills and the trade of firemen is slowly slipping away due to selfishness and shortsightedness of a few. And that is unfortuneate that too few want to do anything about it.

    FTM-PTB

  25. #25
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Carrollton, TX
    Posts
    201

    Default

    A quote from my Paramedic Instructor that seems to fit this topic:

    "We no longer have fire departments. Sure they are called that, but in reality they are EMS departments that happen to catch the occasional fire."

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 10 1234 ... Last

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Bronx Box 2797 Collapse
    By FFFRED in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 159
    Last Post: 08-27-2014, 12:10 PM
  2. Tooele outgrows the EMT's
    By UTFFEMT in forum Utah
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 11-30-2005, 05:22 PM
  3. meet and greet ffs....
    By lavendergladios in forum Meet and Greet
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 04-08-2005, 01:50 PM
  4. Firemen, EMTs, & Police
    By WendyL in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-26-2001, 05:28 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register