1. #1
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    5

    Default Ford E series ambulance chassis

    Has anyone heard that there are issues with the Ford E450 and the 6.0L diesel? I heard some rumblings that the chassis/engine combo is no longer available from Ford. What else is there to use?

  2. #2
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Easton, PA
    Posts
    37

    Default Yep

    From what I have this is true, Ford is going to continue to offer the type 1 ambulance on the F series chassis. The E series was found to be loaded over the listed GVW most of the time, that is the reason that I got for Ford discontinuing the use.

  3. #3
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Penny Lane
    Posts
    390

    Default

    I heard talk of this yesterday. The way I understood it, the E-series would be completely discontinued for ambulance use (at least the cut-away market). I'm not sure of the specific reasons, but I was led to believe that it was more related to engine issues than GVW issues - even though they've had their fair share of those, as well.

  4. #4
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    492

    Default Small box

    Will the use of "mini-mod" boxes still be availble. It seems like putting one of those on an F kind of defeats the point...

  5. #5
    Forum Member
    islandfire03's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    2,663

    Default

    Has anyone got a link to any official release from ford on this? or is this just the gossip stream flowing? I find nothing on the Ford website

  6. #6
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    5

    Default

    The following is a cut and paste memo we received from an ambulance manufacturer:

    On Wednesday, February 7, 2007 the Ford Motor Company released the following statement:

    "This notice is to inform you of a diesel engine supply issue which affects the 6.0 L diesel engine that is currently offered in the E-Series vans, wagons and cutaways. We can no longer accept orders which include this engine. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause our dealers, customers, and pool accounts".

  7. #7
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    Swanton Fire Dept. Swanton, Vermont
    Posts
    479

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PMChuck View Post
    The following is a cut and paste memo we received from an ambulance manufacturer:

    On Wednesday, February 7, 2007 the Ford Motor Company released the following statement:

    "This notice is to inform you of a diesel engine supply issue which affects the 6.0 L diesel engine that is currently offered in the E-Series vans, wagons and cutaways. We can no longer accept orders which include this engine. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause our dealers, customers, and pool accounts".
    Ford is going to a new 6.4l twin turbo for the SuperDuty's. It is most likely related. I saw an ad on TV the other day for the new SD Pickup with the new diesel.

  8. #8
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Mostly in the dog house
    Posts
    25

    Default

    From what I heard yesterday (no fact, just hearsay) Ford isn't going to be using the 6.0 liter engine due to '07 emissions, and the 6.4 liter twin turbo replacement won't fit in the E-series chassis.

    A friend of mine sells cut-away chassis with bus bodies (like the airport parking shuttles) said he was told yesterday by his body builder that they couldn't do any more Ford E-series diesel cut away chassis.

  9. #9
    Forum Member
    Fyrtrks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 1999
    Location
    Binghamton,N.Y.
    Posts
    265

    Default 6.0 Liter E Series Vans

    It is true Ford will not offer the 6.0 in the e series vans any more. As of yesterday Ford had orders for 4,600 e series diesel vans and only had 2,100 engines. Ford says it was not a direct result of the lawsuit between Ford and IH but as a result of a signifcantly increased price and warranty claims. They may use a gasoline in 2008 for ambulance chassis.

    I think that GM 4500 chassis will move to the forefront, I personally do not like the 4500 but it's not about me but about what the customer wants. I would prefer the IH 4300.

    It's going to hurt ambulance and bus manufacturers but I am sure people will be on the band wagon quickly to fix the hole.
    Fyrtrks

  10. #10
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    35

    Default

    It is true. Ford plans on comining out with a new gas ambulance prep for the E series in less than 90 days. I have heard it has been the works well before the IH issue. They have doing multiple test to make sure no vapor locking etc will occur.

  11. #11
    Forum Member
    islandfire03's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    2,663

    Talking

    Because this thread got me wondering about the truth in the rumors ,I went straight to the horses mouth and here is what i was given.

    1. The ongoing issues with the 6.0 liter turbo failures and the ensuing litigation between ford and navistar have caused some serious issues.
    2. The 07 emissions issues have caused them to go with the twin turbo 6.4 liter which will not fit into the Econoline series chassis.

    3. The availability of 6.0 liters is nonexistent and no further orders will be taken on this chassis /engine combination.

    4. They are looking at certifying the 6.8 liter gas v-10 for amb service,
    but this combination does not meet current KKK specs.

    5. GM is working to beef up it's HD 1ton chassis to heavier GVW to use
    in cut-away conversions. right now it's too light a GVW to carry type
    3 ambulance boxes and class C motorhomes

    6. These facts are from a large fleet buyer for conversions for ambulance
    motorhome & bus manufacturers.

    7. They are not in panic mode as of now and hope that the engine issues will be worked out this year. for 2008 production models.

    personally I wish they would have kept the 7.3 liter navistar which was much better than it's replacement the 6.0 with the variable geometry turbo. Not a rocket ship but extremely durable and plenty of towing power. Guess we'll be keeping our 95 ambulance a while longer to see where this all shakes out

  12. #12
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    5

    Default

    The message from Ford is this:

    The 6.0L diesel does meet 07 emission requirements. They had planned to use the engine for another 24 months, but cost issues created the problem. They say the engine will continue to produce cost increases, which they deem too excessive to pass on to the consumers.

    Ford claims to have had a 95% market share in ambulance chassis, and 98% of those were E series. They were profitable. But the cost issues are driving this issue. (Do you really believe that???)

    There are no plans to put the new 6.4L diesel in the E series as it will not fit.

    A 2008 model year solution is planned, but Ford did not offer any information on that. They do claim to be close to being able to offer a gasoline engine that will meet '47A,' but I don't know what that is. Until then, the ambulance industry will have priority over other industries in regards to chassis and diesel engines. As was previously stated, tho, there are 2100 engines but 4600 orders already booked.

    As far as the GMC 4500 Topkick, we have 3 of them, and we hate every single one of them. They ride is terrible, first and foremost. If you have anyone that's tall, the cab offers very little leg room. I am 6'7, and my knees bump the dash constantly. The only partial fix is to take all of the air out of the air ride seat. You know how comfortable bumping down the road like that is. My last gripe about the chassis is the doors. We're in a cold climate, and cold air leaks through the doors live a sieve. we are completely disappointed with our ambulances on this chassis, and will most likely avoid it altogether in the future.

    We are due to spec a new ambulance. Where do we go from here? What are other depts doing?

    Thanks for the discussion!

    Chuck

  13. #13
    Forum Member
    islandfire03's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    2,663

    Default

    PMchuck : there are a lot of us in the same place as your in. We had been planning to order a new type 3 next year and weren't looking to go to the medium duty chassis, which as you said ride and handle like small dump trucks. I don't see them going backwards to putting Gas engines in ambulance service, plus the KKK standards would have to be re-written to allow them. I guess we will have to look at type 1 chassis with a full size box.

    On another track does anyone run a 4 wheel drive type 1 on a F-450 chassis?

  14. #14
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    5

    Default

    We run Type I on an F450 super duty, but only two wheel drive. We have four of them from Road Rescue, now all reserves. We recently bought the three 4500s.

    In regards to the Road Rescue Type I's on the F450 chassis, I can't say enough about them. We had some tranny issues and air ride issues in the cold, but other than those things, they were the best ambulances I have worked in in my 15 years in EMS.

    Chuck

  15. #15
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    35

    Thumbs up

    First let me preface my comments by saying a few things. I am a NREMTP and have been involved with EMS/Rescue for over 20 years and Fire longer than that as I grew up across the street from my local VFD. I do ambulance sales part time for 2 different mfgs. My full time EMS job does not use the product I represent. Now that being said - Islandfire please do not take offense but you can use the G 3500 (cutaway) for ambulances just cannot put a module of any size on it like you stated due to low GVWR. I to feel it will be a step backward to go back to gas as I had the misfourtune of living thru vapor lock/fire issues. I sincerely hope Ford has done the testing they say on the V10's if that is all they are going to offer for us to use. The info I have comes from what I think are folks "in the know" in reference to Fords coming out with the KKK gas V10. But like everything else it is a wait and see if it is true issue. Like I stated before these are my opinions and information not those of my employers and should not be taken as such. Thanks and all stay safe and come home, Neal Craig

  16. #16
    Forum Member
    islandfire03's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    2,663

    Default

    POCAMBU : absolutely no offense taken.
    My statement about the GM 3500 series was exactly what you said. You can mount a mini mod on them but if your going to do that you might as well have a type 2 van. The light GVWR just can't handle the loads we put on the full size type 3 boxes today. With our current equipment loads the E-350 is not suitable either , unless you watch what you load the compartments with. The E-450 seemed to be the perfect balance between too light and war wagon class of the mid liners . We would never buy a mid liner due to having small roads and driveways with limited turn around space.
    I have worked on a FL in intercity transport and it was wonderful for hauling a crew of 4 or 5 plus the pt. and all the specialized equipment. Unfortunately it rode like a Mack dump truck and was only good on paved multi-lane hi-ways. We don't even have anything bigger than 2 lane paved roads with a large percentage being dirt/gravel. This is why I asked about the F-450 4 wheel drive type 1 setup . I have seen a few E-series with the Quigley [sp] conversion and had wondered how that would work in ambulance service use.
    We shall all have to wait and see how this all works out as I don't think that Ford will let the conversion market slip away from them as it's a large market shre for them in the commercial vehicle business

  17. #17
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    35

    Default

    Islandfire, At my EMS job we made the switch from F-350 to F-450 due to payload. Nothing wrong with the chassis but lots of 6.0 issues. All of ours up till now have been 4x2 except for our light duty rescue which is 4x4. However due to chassis availibilty the next order - 4 total - will be 4x4. Due in next month. I will be interested to see how the 4x4 holds up to our folks abuse. Trust me no matter what we do they treat'em like crap. I only hope nobdy tries to go too extreme off roading. But like I said overall pretty happy with the F-450. As far a C4500 ride issues I know Link has improved the new models and I think offers retrofit kits.

  18. #18
    Master Firefighter
    nwadler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Somewhere
    Posts
    220

    Default

    I was looking at the chevrolet website and saw that the express van cutaway is offered in a diesel version with an ambulance package. I know that this may not be good for the bigger type III ambulances but for the type 2 and mini mods do you think it might replace the ford e series.

  19. #19
    MembersZone Subscriber
    npfd801's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Somewhere in Illinois
    Posts
    2,223

    Default

    If the GM cutaways use the newer diesel, they might have a chance. The local ambulance service that covers us bought two GM/Medtec diesels probably two or three years ago. One caught fire, both were mechanical nightmares. They have both been banished from the fleet, well before their scheduled replacement date. And no, the Medtec reference has no bearing on the GM side of things....

    Just buy a Sprinter... You'll get your diesel then...
    "Share your knowledge - it's a way to achieve immortality." - Stolen from Chase Sargent's Buddy to Boss program

  20. #20
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    294

    Default

    Thats all anyone uses here in Australia now, the "yank tanks" have fallen by the wayside. The Mercedes Sprinter is it now.

  21. #21
    MembersZone Subscriber
    N2DFire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2000
    Location
    S.W. Virginia
    Posts
    1,286

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by islandfire03 View Post
    On another track does anyone run a 4 wheel drive type 1 on a F-450 chassis?
    An agency I did a brief stint with has a F-350 & a newer F-450 Both Type I 4wd.
    My old agency also has a F-350 4wd that's between the above two in age.

    Aside from minor differences in year model changes & badging (and color and lettering of course) - if you parked them all in a row you would be hard pressed to tell them apart.

    The 450 may sit a little higher and have a slightly "bigger" feel when driving it, but being used to how a Type I Drives / Rides already - the differences are not all that noticeable to me.

    I would also estimate that Two-Thirds of our counties fleet (of 20+ ambulances) are Type I's with the majority of them being 4wd (gotta love being rural in the foothills of the Blue Ridge Mtns). The remainder are Type III's 2wd with Auto Chains.

    I know that over the years ('97 and up) we have had various issues with Ford components (transmissions mainly) but they have all (eventually) been repaired or resolved. The only real complaint comes with issues with the local service center.
    Take Care - Stay Safe - God Bless
    Stephen
    FF/Paramedic
    Instructor

  22. #22
    Forum Member
    islandfire03's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    2,663

    Default

    A service nearby bought a couple of sprinters for their long distance transfer duty and love the fuel mileage but they are very susceptible to wind blown lane shifts and are incredibly small in comparison to the full size type 3's that most of us are using today for 911 service where we have more than 1 EMT and a pt. in the back. Plus they are severely lacking in exterior compartment space. There have also been some recurring maintenance issues with them that took several attempts at the dealership to remedy. I know that they are not for us.

  23. #23
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Terre Haute, IN
    Posts
    35

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nwadler View Post
    I was looking at the chevrolet website and saw that the express van cutaway is offered in a diesel version with an ambulance package. I know that this may not be good for the bigger type III ambulances but for the type 2 and mini mods do you think it might replace the ford e series.
    One thing to keep in mind is they had to derate the motor (250 horse/440 torque) from the normal rating to make it work in the van chassis (cooling issues). It might be a little lacking in performance fully loaded.

  24. #24
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    111

    Default

    I just checked out Fords web site, they are pushing a "new, bolder" 2008, but no mention of any diesel engine on the E series. Posted 3/12/07

    Also they are no longer showing any availablity of a E series on a ambulance prep..only F series

    http://media.ford.com/newsroom/featu...?release=24890

    https://www.fleet.ford.com/showroom/...sp?VehicleID=1
    Last edited by buckdog; 03-13-2007 at 10:39 PM.

  25. #25
    Forum Member
    islandfire03's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    2,663

    Default

    Thanks buckdog: Seems to me that maybe they are enlarging the front ends from the "A" post forward to prepare the E-series to be able to fit the 6.4 L diesel. otherwise they may have just made the second ugliest truck front end I've ever seen. A 14,500 GVW will be nice with all the stuff we seem to be cramming into ambulances nowadays.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Why diesel?
    By JonathanGennick in forum The Engineer
    Replies: 57
    Last Post: 10-25-2009, 02:04 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register