Why register? ...To Enhance Your Experience
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 46
  1. #1
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    1,154

    Default Now that was weird...

    Yes, I'm setting a trap Be warned. Other district in town, we were on the 1st alarm assignment. It was one of the biggest head scratchers at our station in 20 years -- certainly generated a lot of discussion. I think we eventually came up with a decent critique of what happened and how we might have handled some stuff differently...and certainly some things to tuck in the back of your mind for future reference.

    Early February, 1645. Chilly, steady breeze from west ("D" side), although that will get gusty for a few minutes as the sun finally sets. Call comes in as smoke detectors sounding, call by the property owner arriving home from work. Fire Chief arrives to find light smoke showing, all windows covered in oily soot. Neighbor reports he heard the smoke alarms going off at 1100, but didn't see anything when he looked in the windows then so he disregarded.

    Lines to the basement via the bulkhead on "D" & first floor via front door (a small area of the floor had burned through at the area of origin which was near wiring running in the floor joists).

    This photo (taken by the OIC of the FAST) is around 10 minutes into operations on the fireground when they were arriving. Before I post the next sequence, we'll start with this -- if you're just arriving at this point, what would your impression of the situation be?



  2. #2
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Wheaton IL
    Posts
    1,765

    Default

    OK, I'll bite, did you have a bug bomb or other simmilar device?

    First impression. The smoke looks a bit light. Without being there I'd say you had something that is now knocked.

  3. #3
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    343

    Default

    Im waiting for a good twist, it looks interesting!!

  4. #4
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    1,154

    Default

    Yep, real light smoke ADSNWFLD...lots of steam, and both from the pictures and the guys inside a decent amount of heat to be making that much steam.

    But your impression was the same as mine -- stick a fork in it, fires knocked time to start heavy overhauling.

    But the crews have one problem overhauling...no visibility. More heat then they'd expect for the fire they saw, and despite a good amount of horizontal ventilation on the leeward side, the smoke/steam just isn't lifting.

    How would you improve ventilation?


  5. #5
    Master Firefighter nwadler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Somewhere
    Posts
    220

    Default

    If you have an idea of where you want it then go with some vertical ventilation or maybe to really show you where the fire is put a ppv in the front door. This looks like it could get interesting. Also maybe stretch an extra line like a 2.5 just in case.

  6. #6
    Forum Member THEFIRENUT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    East Texas
    Posts
    1,009

    Default

    From what I can see in the picture, I don't see a need to cut a hole in this man's roof. A PPV fan at the door would be a good start. I would also keep everyone on their toes (just in case you have an alien space ship in the basement.) If the heat is not dissipating after the initial knockdown, then I would suspect that this would not be the fire origin.

    The suspense is killing me (well at least hurting me a little).
    Last edited by THEFIRENUT; 02-20-2007 at 03:43 AM.
    Just someone trying to help! (And by the way....Thanks for YOUR help!)

    Aggressive does not have to equal stupid.

    ** "The comments made here are this person's views and possibly that of the organizations to which I am affiliated" **

  7. #7
    Forum Member fireman4949's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Tallahassee, Florida
    Posts
    2,323

    Default

    Just a far-fetched guess...Were they operating some sort of hot-house for growing pot in the basement?

    (EDIT) ...Or in the attic?
    Last edited by fireman4949; 02-20-2007 at 05:42 AM.
    Fire Lieutenant/E.M.T.
    IAFF Local 2339
    K of C 4th Degree
    "LEATHER FOREVER"
    Member I.A.C.O.J.
    http://www.tfdfire.com/
    "Fir na tine"

  8. #8
    MembersZone Subscriber jsdobson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Anchorage, AK
    Posts
    220

    Default

    Can't tell for sure with just still photos but it looks like the steam is escaping with pressure behind it. Heat/fire in the attic space would prevent the steam from escaping from the living areas.

    I'd go for vertical ventilation if there is no snow on the roof of the living area.

    My gut says the fire started in the basement and has breach the wall(s) and is moving to the attic space.
    BE SAFE
    Before Everything, Stop And First Evaluate

  9. #9
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    NE Ohio
    Posts
    110

    Default

    This is just a wild a@s guess. The home owner install a sauna in the basement without adequate ventilation.

  10. #10
    Forum Member Haweater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    THE Rock, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    141

    Default

    I agree on the vertical ventilation. Then I'd give the white hats a nudge and politely suggest "GET THAT FREAKIN TRUCK OUT OF THE DRIVEWAY!!!!" Mysterious amounts of smoke, shiny pumper within 35' of house...... hmmmmm
    I like the second shiny pumper blocking the escape of pumper 1 ! LOL
    Cheers,
    Just my $0.02
    G

  11. #11
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Pt. Beach, NJ
    Posts
    10,659

    Default

    natural gas furnace with water heater combined. heater failed and started fire, gas line feeding fire, water line to heater broke and is putting some, but not enough, water on fire causing "some" knockdown.

    PPV van at the front? Increasing heat and no known reason and you would start pushing fresh air in? Interesting.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  12. #12
    MembersZone Subscriber EFD840's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Eclectic (no, NOT electric), Alabama
    Posts
    1,510

    Default

    Does it have a basement? Has anyone pulled ceiling and used a TIC to make sure there's no attic fire? With the facts given, I would be thinking vertical ventilation or at the least maybe opening up the gable end vents on the a, b, and d sides but no PPV until I'm satisfied there's no attic fire. I agree it looks beat but there's no way I would PPV the joint if I've still got unexplained heat and/or smoke. I can burn a roof off without any extra help!

  13. #13
    MembersZone Subscriber F52Westside's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Posts
    268

    Default

    I remember an article some time ago in one of the trades. I don't recall alot of it because we don't have this type of furnace in our area, that I know of anyway.
    Some kind of oil burner.

    The "oily soot" is what brought this to mind.


    P.S.
    - Dal - I knew I should of checked the other site, I would have been able to come up with a more informed answer. I'll keep quiet, and let you reveal the story . I can't believe I remembered what I did.
    Last edited by F52Westside; 02-20-2007 at 09:54 AM.
    Stay Safe & Bring 'em Home!
    Eddie C.
    I.A.F.F. Local 3008

    "Doin' it for lives n' property"

    ** "The comments made here are this person's views and not that of the organizations to which I am affiliated" **

  14. #14
    Forum Member nmfire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Maryland (DC Suburb)
    Posts
    5,738

    Default

    I think the answer is quite obvious. Clearly a volcanic fissure opened up in the basement and is super-heating the water from the attack lines. Duh.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

  15. #15
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Lusby, MD
    Posts
    1,033

    Default

    Depending on the type of heater, I'm thinking a leak in the heating oil line somewhere. Our first response would probably be to start PPV, that would show us where any fire is, but I'd like to get the TIC in there and start opening up walls/ceilings first.

  16. #16
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    1,154

    Default

    House has a full basement, partially finished. 1st / 2nd due teamed up to get a line in operation through the bulkhead door.

    Oil heat, 275gallon tank in the basement although the Fire Marshal confirmed it did not fail.

    Oily, sooty windows are from smoke condensating on the windows -- fire was definitely in the "decay" stage after having been burning for 5+ hours before the 911 call (typical 1/4 acre lot suburban area...right on a main road, so no reason for people to have not seen smoke earlier...just a fairly slow burning fire in a tight house).

    Like some of the guys above indicated, still kind of hairy to use PPV since there was a lot of heat, and we didn't have a good handle on where the fire, if any, was remaining. Knew there had been some flames on two levels (basement & first) which had been knocked down. Remember the house had been stewing for hours, so it was pretty warm everywhere.

    Crews wanted to start aggressively opening up the walls and ceiling, but couldn't see. And the floor was spongy in one spot (the area of origin) so they were moving carefully on the first floor.

    So like some of the posters above, crew went to the roof. Notice the smoke from the ridge vent doesn't look that menancing at all...


    Edited to add credit for this photo to Josh Maloney...I'll post his website later but I don't want any cheaters for now
    Last edited by Dalmatian190; 02-20-2007 at 12:51 PM.

  17. #17
    Forum Member res1cueffd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Near Dallas
    Posts
    93

    Default

    i like this method of presenting the scenario dal, ill just keep quiet since i already know the story.
    FireFighter/EMT
    Rescue 1

    IACOJ
    FTM-PTB

  18. #18
    MembersZone Subscriber EFD840's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Eclectic (no, NOT electric), Alabama
    Posts
    1,510

    Default

    Oh heck, the oil tank reminded me. I remember it now so I'll quit playing too.

  19. #19
    MembersZone Subscriber CFD Hazards's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Cranston, RI, USA
    Posts
    381

    Default

    Is this what I read about a few years ago, that someone referred to as the "white ghost". An oil burner problem, gives off a ton of heat but looks very unassuming. The oil is atomizing in the fire box but not igniting. When it finds an ignition, it can cause a large explosion and fire. Maybe the reason for the hole in the floor.

  20. #20
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    1,154

    Default

    Nope, wasn't a White Ghost. I do wonder if any fuel oil may have evaporated and added to the fuel load just from stewing in a basement which was likely above the flash point of home heating oil for a few hours, but it doesn't seem that it was a primary part of the problem.

    Irregardless, you certainly had other petroleum-based furnishings producing flammable gases as they decomposed, as well as plain old fashion CO from petroleum and wood based fuels.

    I'll post the pic where it gets interesting tonite

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Weird or unusual fire department names?
    By ff_1361_ovfd in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 98
    Last Post: 06-12-2010, 11:45 PM
  2. Keep Austin weird
    By MIKEYLIKESIT in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 01-19-2006, 09:55 AM
  3. Weird Looking Stations / pictures
    By WaffleHut in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 08-06-2005, 07:20 AM
  4. I had a weird dream last night...
    By EastKyFF in forum The Off Duty Forums
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 04-02-2005, 12:59 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts